stupid orders

bush musketeer

bush musketeer

Active member
i was wondering if any of you know of instances of stupid orders being issued to commanders that were impossible to carry out? with what they had.

Capt. H.T. Kienzle got this ludicrous order:C.O. to make arrangements to fulfil requirements up to a maximum of 1000 native labourers. To construct a road from Port Moresby to the village of Kokoda to commence not later than the 29th june 1942. Road to be completed by 26th august 1942.


in other words make a road over the new guinea highlands without heavymachinery(like it would of made a difference). That was roughly 150 kms long and went over mountains that were up to 4000mts high in some areas. with 1000 labourers in less then two months.
his reply was " get stuffed" or words to that effect ;)

From Peter Brunes book "ragged bloody heroes"
 
That's even more of what our prime minister promises to build in my country: bridges, roads, freeways, airports.... 8)
 
How about the time Hitler made the commander of the German forces in Stalingrad a Field Marshal...with the intention that instead of surrendering, the field marshall would take himself and his troops down fighting...because of the legend that no field marshall in the german army had ever surrendered?

It didn't work by the way...and Hitler was mad!
 
Mark Conley said:
How about the time Hitler made the commander of the German forces in Stalingrad a Field Marshal...with the intention that instead of surrendering, the field marshall would take himself and his troops down fighting...because of the legend that no field marshall in the german army had ever surrendered?

It didn't work by the way...and Hitler was mad!
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That field marshal probably thought: "At least I'm the first at something..."
 
that was also the reason why the commanding officer of the troops stationed in western france was promoted to a field marshal.
 
that was also the reason why the commanding officer of the troops stationed in western france was promoted to a field marshal.
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Who was this? von Runstedt was already a GFM when he was appointed OB West as were von Kluge and Busch.
 
Mark Conley said:
How about the time Hitler made the commander of the German forces in Stalingrad a Field Marshal...with the intention that instead of surrendering, the field marshall would take himself and his troops down fighting...because of the legend that no field marshall in the german army had ever surrendered?

It didn't work by the way...and Hitler was mad!
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:( Hitler was quite prepared to sacrifice the 6th Army so that he could extract the rest of his army groups from the Caucasus. You are right it didn't help in the long run! A shocking battle was Stalingrad but I can't stop reading about it. Does anyone have up to date casualty figures on the Battle for Stalingrad. There seem to be a lot of conflicting ones out there.
 
johnmckeogh said:
Mark Conley said:
How about the time Hitler made the commander of the German forces in Stalingrad a Field Marshal...with the intention that instead of surrendering, the field marshall would take himself and his troops down fighting...because of the legend that no field marshall in the german army had ever surrendered?

It didn't work by the way...and Hitler was mad!
Click to expand...

:( Hitler was quite prepared to sacrifice the 6th Army so that he could extract the rest of his army groups from the Caucasus. You are right it didn't help in the long run! A shocking battle was Stalingrad but I can't stop reading about it. Does anyone have up to date casualty figures on the Battle for Stalingrad. There seem to be a lot of conflicting ones out there.
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Although the feeding of 6th Army into the Stalingrad mincer was an insane military decision, it did tie up several Soviet Armies and therefore *may* have helped stabilize the Southern front. I'm not sure that Hitler was prepared to sacrifice 6th Army as such, more that he expected it not to give up any ground and was assured by Hermann Goering that it could be supplied by air, which was hopelesly optimistic.

As for accurate casualty figures it's pretty hard to get those. I think the most common accepted numbers are 250,000 German, 250,000 Romanian/Italian and 1,100,000 Soviet. These numbers are for the entire battle. It was probably the most intense battle in human history. No other battle in WW2 comes close.
 
Thanks for the data about the casualty figures for the battle of stalingrad.

Yes, Hitler's intention was not to "sacrifice" the 6th Army but I believe many of the encircled German soldiers felt that way after the breakout attempts failed. Von Paulus was no Rommel. I doubt Rommel would have hesitated if he was at Stalingrad and had the earlier chance to break out.

Anyway nice talking to you. :lol:
 
Quite frankly, there are no such thing as accurate casualty figures for the battle of Stalingrad. Basically, Germany lost its 6th army plus attached formations, while Russia lost another whole pisspot full. Estimates are easy to come by, but the exact figures will never be known. For good estimates and descriptions of the battle, read Stalingrad by Antony Beevor. He can speak and read both German and Russian fluently, so his research is first-rate.

Hope this helps.


Dean.
 
I have read the War of the Rats, by David Robbins. It's about the battle for Stalingrad and the famous Russian sniper, Vasiliy Zaitsev. It gives some history insight and aproximate losses, so here they are:

Original name: Tsaritsyn
During Communism: Stalingrad
Now named: Volgograd

Began: August 23rd, 1942
Ended: January 31st, 1943

German commander: General Friedrich Paulus
Russian commander: General Vasiliy Chuikov

German 6th army kept its strength inside the city always at 100,000, drawing manpower from Italian, Hungarian and Rumanian divisions positioned on the steppe outside the city. Russians never exceeded 60,000, sometimes as low as 20,000, when fighting desperately and barely surviving until reinforcements could be ferried across the Volga river. The fighting was SO intense, for every centimeter of the city that it was named Rattenkrieg, or "war of the rats" (which is where the book drew its name). Both armies fought with incredible will and determination, the whole city was reduced to smoking ruins, a charred reminder of what the city used to look like. For months the fighting was street to street, house to house, hand to hand, sometimes the reward for hundreds of lives were mere couple meters, only to be lost the next day. The city exchanged hands many times in fact. To illustrate the Russian determination to hold the city NO MATTER WHAT, there's a landmark in the city of Stalingrad which can be seen even today, as it was preserved as a symbol of the Russian Will. It's called Pavlov's House. It was named after a sargeant in the Russian Army, Yacov Pavlov, who with a company of men took a 4 story house, and defended it for FIFTY NINE days against the relentless German attack. He actually survived the battle and WW2 and was awarded the Hero of the Soviet Union medal (CMoH equivalent). Chuikov liked to point out that Pavlov and his men killed more enemy soldiers than the Germans lost in the capture of Paris. By mid-October the city almost fell into German hands, Russians had their backs to the river, but by November, the Red Army executed its "November surprise", springing suddenly with incredibly speed and flanking the Axis powers from both north and south, completely encircling them, so they were between the anvil and the hammer, or as the Germans called it, der Kessel, "The Cauldron". Of the more than 250,000 troops sorrounded on the steppe, only about 100,000 remained to surrender to the Red Army two and a half months later.

Axis casualties:
German - 400,000
Italians - 130,000
Hungarians - 120,000
Rumanians - 200,000

Red Army:
750,000 killed, wounded and missing

Final toll on soldiers of both armies:
1,109,000 deaths.

Civilian losses:
Out of Stalingrad's 500,000 pre-war population, only 1.500 civilians were alive after the battle's end!

Kinda makes you glad that you weren't born yet to see that horror, huh?
 
One of the most famous examples of misunderstood orders is the Charge of the Light Brigade. Which was essentially a British cavalry unit during the Crimean war charging a Russian artillery position through a valley ringed by more Russian troops. Essentially the charge was suicidal but they charged anyway. The brigade in question suffered a little more than 20% dead.
 
Pickett's Charge?

Yes, and the officers in Gen Pickett's division certainly were reminded of the Charge of the Light Brigade as they watched their soldiers fall on that July day at Gettysburg.

"General Lee, I have no division" - attributed to Gen Pickett at the end of the day
 
Re: Pickett's Charge?

MI Blues said:
Yes, and the officers in Gen Pickett's division certainly were reminded of the Charge of the Light Brigade as they watched their soldiers fall on that July day at Gettysburg.

"General Lee, I have no division" - attributed to Gen Pickett at the end of the day
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Yes, and if you ever go to Gettysburg and look at the distance (better yet, try walking it) from the Confederate start point beyond Seminary Ridge to the Union position on Cemetery Ridge, you really wonder what Lee thought he was doing!

This is worse that Hood's order at the Battle of Franklin, but only just.

Of course, to be fair to the Confederacy, we should also discuss Grant's attack at Cold Harbor and Sherman's attack at Kenesaw Mountain. Both we costly failures and both of them knew better (Cold Harbor was the one attack that Grant regretted to end of his days)
 
The charge of The Light Brigade, although foolish it did help turn the whole battle as while the Russians were busy with this battle, other attacks went and were highly successful.
 
rocco said:
and out of those 100000 survivors many lost their lives in russian prison camps
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Yep, 94,200 to be exact. There were some survivors that kept track of the German prisoners of war from Stalingrad as they were released from the Soviet penal system. The tally never went higher than 5,800.

Dean.
 
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