S 37/Su 47, Stacked agiast the Raptor

[Yossarian]

F 22 A Raptor
As some of you know, the U.S. Air Force sent out a reuqest for a replacment for its then brand new F 15 Eagle, thus, after years of compition, the U.S. Air Force chose two companies for the job, Lockheed Martin, and Northrope Grumman, who then in turn sumbitted 2 proto types, the YF 23 From Northope Grumman, and the YF 22 From Lockheed Martin.

Lockheed Martin won, along with Boeing, they went forth to prefect the program. The Raptor program, being one of the USAF's top prorities, soon gave out a order of over 700 fighters orgionlly. But soon they cut the order back multiple times to a now under 200 fighters. 183 I do belive.

Sporting advanced data sharing technologies, as well as revalutionary avionics, the FA/22 Raptor is more stasticly more than a match for any fighter in the world today.But with the reduction of orders for aircraft, the individual aircraft price keeps rising. The program itself , was close to being dropped by USAF project and program managers al through out the 90s. Cashing in around $381,000,000 per fighter, the already shrinking 3% military budget, has endangered the new 5th generation fighter many times.

Crew1Entered service in2000Dimensions and weightLength18.9 mWing span13.5 mHeight 5.9 mWeight28 tEnginesEngines2 x Pratt-Whitney turbines F119-PW-100Traction15855 kgsAltitude19.8 kmMaximum speed2655 km/hFlying range3704 kmArmamentAviation gun20-mm 6 barrel rotary gun M61A2Missiles4 x AIM-9 "Sidewinder", AIM-7 "Sparrow", 4 x AIM-120

But we all know, there must be a flipside, there is.

Su 47 Berkut, S/37 Golden Eagle
Known and rumored to have many names and model numbers, this new aircraft by Sukhoi is unlike the uture fighters of other nations, J 10, Ef 2000, the Su 47 also kown as the S/37, is built for the fufillment of one purpose.Mulitpurpose elimination capabilities of enemy forces. Like the Raptor,the Su 47/S37 is a very revalutionary desgin. Compared even to the Raptor's diamond wing design, the Berkut, or "Golden Eagle". Also built as the Suhkoi Aircraft Company's ambition to have total control over the Russian aircraft market. This may be Mikoyan's undoing.

However, the desgin, has had many problems, for its a forward swept wing design. The design has had problems mainly realized soon after the aircraft was first tested on its maiden flight on September 25 1998. The foward swept wing configoration was chosen to greatly increase airframe manurvarbility. The orginal proto type, however lacked in avionics.

In fact,Defence Ministry Acquisition Chief Col Gen Anatoly Sitnov stated:What is the use of developing the Sukhoi fifth-generation fighter, if the aircraft's cockpit dates back to a second- or third-generation design?"
This prospect has delayed the program futhur, along with economic hardships in the Russian economy.

The fighter may be in peril, but still has made many advancments in Aviation history, unlike the X 29A before it, it may be the first combat operational forward swept wing design aircraft to entere frontline service anywhere in the world.But , with fourth generation avionics and flight control systems, it may fall behind before that goal is accomplished.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Dimesions (mm):[/FONT]-[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]-wingspan:[/FONT]16.7[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]-lenght overall:[/FONT]22.6[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]-heigth overall:[/FONT]6,4 [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Maximum speed (km/h):[/FONT]-[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]-at height:[/FONT]2500[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]-at S/L:[/FONT]1400[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Weight (kg):[/FONT]empty: 24'000[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Engine:[/FONT]D30F6/AL-31FU[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Thrust:[/FONT]2 x 15'500 kg[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Service ceiling:[/FONT]18000 m[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Range (km):[/FONT]3300[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Number of hardpoints:[/FONT]14: 2 wingtip; 6-8 underwing; 6-4 conformal underfus. + GSh-301[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Air-to-air missiles:[/FONT]KS-172 (AA, range=400km), RVV-AE, R-77; R-77PD; R-73; K-74[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Air-to-Surface:[/FONT]X-29T; X-29L; X-59M; X-31P/A; KAB-500/1500



Sources:
Specs from enemy forces.com

Su 47 / S 37 info from Sukhoi .com
as well as enemy forces .com,
and Jane's Reconition guide to military aircraft.

F 22/A info from, Lockheed Martin .com
Enemy forces.com,
and The Lockheed Martin FA/22 Raptor, by Jay Miller.


What do you guys think? Witch program has better promise to you?

 

[EagleHammer]

I Think It Seem's Like The Amerikan Has More Promises But I Hope The Russian Will Be Better Cause I Don't Like The United States Of America.

 

[Yossarian]

Eh, eh, (*shutters*)

I personelly like the Russian Company Sukhoi, and thier air demo teams, the Russian Knights, and team Strizhi ( Swifts).

But, that does not mean I dont like my nation, I love my country for its citizens, we have people of all walks of life, the only thing I dislike is the current national goverment, and what they are doing, that, makes me angry.

I always have some hope for improvement in my nation. I didnt mean to skirt this topic to much.

But, by saying "I hope the Russians do will be better"

Your not saying you are hoping for any type of violence to erupt between the two nations are you?

 

[EagleHammer]

No, But If S/37 Is Better, Then If That Is The Case In Future Aircraft Design's To, Us Might Lose A Little Of Their Political Influence.
Beacuse I Think Big Nation's Military Strenghth Is Decided By The Planes They Use. So The Us Government Can't Control And Decide As Much As They Do Now.

 

[Yossarian]

So far the U.S is in the lead in that case, but, its kinda hard to show off the shiney new Raptor, when flip cards, to see that the USAF is struggling to even purchase the aircraft.

But, the Russian Air Ministry, has had doubts about the Su 47 S/37 for years, but still, put funds into it, I think all they are waiting for is better supersonic performance and avionics. Then , maybe, by 2011, the Berkut, or Golden Eagle will hit operational status.

 

[Damien435]

I voted F-22, the F-22 stores it's missiles internally, further reducing it's radar signature, that I think gives the F-22 a better chance to "sneak up" up on the SU-37/47 and get the first shot.

 

[Yossarian]

The Su 47 S/ 37 can do the same thing, but the internal weapons bay is rather small compared to the Raptor.

 

[sandy]

I remember,engines Byerkut are D-30F6 from mig-31.
Cost performance of that engine is not good.(gigantic and low maintainancibility)
Even that D-30F6 has as big thrust as F119,Su-47 is too heavy.
Empty weight of Su-47 is 24,000 kg.
But Raptor's is 14,365kg.
So I think,Su-47's maneuverity is inferior than F-22's.
As a matter of fact,Su-47's engines are too old.

 

[Damien435]

Another thing, the F-22 is in full production and we already have squadrons of them serving, the Su-47 appears to be headed back towards the design boards, I always have problems comparing a functioning aircraft to hypothetical ones, for now I think it is safe to say the F-22 is unrivaled in the skies and will remain that way for quite a while. However more and more and I am starting to think that we should have further upgraded our existing aircraft and instead of building the F-22 built the F-23. Not Boeing's rival to the F-22, but in this case meaning we wait another 10-15 years, allowing the technology to improve even further and then design and build a new aircraft.

 

[Fox]

I Think It Seem's Like The Amerikan Has More Promises But I Hope The Russian Will Be Better Cause I Don't Like The United States Of America.

Watch your mouth....there are alot of Americans on this forums. heh.....

(Mods, if you think I acting like Moderator, well, I don't. I'm proud to be an American, though.)

 

[ASTRALdragon]

Watch your mouth....there are alot of Americans on this forums. heh.....

(Mods, if you think I acting like Moderator, well, I don't. I'm proud to be an American, though.)

I guess there's nothing wrong with not liking a country... At least he didn't say he didn't like Americans.

I chose the F-22 because it seems to be a better plane overall. A couple of things that I like about the F-22 are that the weapons are stored internally whcih lowers radar signatures (as someone above me stated plus it just looks more cool like in the movie Stealth), the technology loaded into that plane is just astounding, and the USAF concept of "kill from far away" is more appealing than "wait till you can see the whites of the enemy's eyes." Why risk losing a dogfight when you can kill them from far away? I think that's why MiGs in the past have been more maneuverable than their American counterparts in the past; Americans build for far range combat and Russians build for close range.

It seems like the American designers go for the "if the old designs work, then build upon it." Kind of like the "don't fix it if it's not broken" philosophy whereas the Russians are trying for extreme innovation as evident in the swept forward design. Will it work? I guess time will tell.

 

[WNxRogue]

The Russian aircraft looks like it has the possibility of being a very capable fighter, and perhaps on par with the F-22. At this time however, the technology in that fighter is not really practical, so I voted for the F-22.

 

[Yossarian]

The Russians should have stayed with the Su 37 program, instead of converting the aircraft back to Su 35s.

Looks like the Russians have a major problem on their hands folks.
God help em if a Modern Miltary air battle is fought in Russian airspace. I hopefully it will never be agaist the Raptor, witch, no matter how it is looked at, like every Abrams, Enfield Rifle, Claymore, Barret Rifle, all these things that sprint technologies foward, are ment for death and destruction.
But, in today's world, they are needed sadly, and I hope they never go away.

I voted the Su 47 S/ 37 , beacause it has alot more room since the F 22A is already serving. That means, that the craft can get either more uprades, such as redesigned foward swept wings, and updated avionics.

I would like to see, as a military aviation fan, love to see a Sukhoi made 5th generation fighter, but, I will always, if I had the choice, rather have a USAF Raptor flying escort...

Oh, and Fox, I agree 100% with ya! But, if people have opinions, they should say them at the right time and in the right place, and never over do it.

 

[bigcanada813]

i voted for the F-22 because it just seems to have more potential, and it helps to be deployed to operational units.

 

[LeEnfield]

Russians always produce a great aircraft, yet America normally has the advantage over them with their electronics

 

[Yossarian]

Yea, it all depends on what your looking for in a fighter aircraft.

Avionics, data sharing capabilities.

Or good ole fashion manuverability and range?