jasonparker
Active member
The great majority of people claim that they are virtuous, have a strong morality, do not harm others, and have no bad characteristics. Unfortunately, the reality is somewhat different!! http://www.harunyahya.com/liar1.php
Liars and their Methods
Airborne Eagle
Active member
I don't believe you.
Duty Honor Country
Active member
That's an interesting piece. I am sure I can find equivalent passages in the bible. It's funny how the lessons of Islam and Christianity are so simular.
Duty Honor Country
Active member
I want a reliable source to back up your statement.
Islam is a VERY general term. I know that Islam, like Christianity, has many splinter groups that distort what the Koran says. Is lying during wartime, when talking to an infidel and to cause the spread of Islam the practice of Islam or radical Islam?
I did a quick google search and came up with 2 things. lying in Islam is ok in War. I will agree with that one. When was the last time an army told the enemy the truth before a battle. The other was a more interesting point. There is a book written by a muslim scholar who said that it is ok to lie in curtain situations. That is an opinion and not pure fact.
please post your source
SGT Doody
Islam is a VERY general term. I know that Islam, like Christianity, has many splinter groups that distort what the Koran says. Is lying during wartime, when talking to an infidel and to cause the spread of Islam the practice of Islam or radical Islam?
I did a quick google search and came up with 2 things. lying in Islam is ok in War. I will agree with that one. When was the last time an army told the enemy the truth before a battle. The other was a more interesting point. There is a book written by a muslim scholar who said that it is ok to lie in curtain situations. That is an opinion and not pure fact.
please post your source
SGT Doody
Okay if you want sources here they are;
"It is important to realise that Islam abhors lying in all situations. It should be noted however that there are cases when telling a lie is acceptable."
http://www.islamicvoice.com/january.2000/hadith.htm
The common Moslem belief is that it is allowable to tell a falsehood on four occasions:
1st, to save one's life;
2nd, to effect a peace or reconciliation;
3rd, to persuade a woman;
4th, on the occasion of a journey or expedition
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Index/L/lying.html
There are no absolute justifications in Islam and the Prophet has asked us to tell truth even under the harshest circumstances of oppression. However, one may choose not to tell the truth when:
http://islam-usa.com/r32.html
" When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible " (Ref: Ahmad Ibn Naqib al-Misri, The Reliance of the Traveller, translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller , Amana publications, 1997, section r8.2, page 745).
Imam Ghazali does not say this without knowledge. He is basing his fatwa on the words and examples of the Prophet himself.
In one hadith we read that the prophet calls upon his followers to assassin Ka’b ibn Ashraf, the chief of a Jewish tribe who was wary of Muhammad and tells them it is okay to tell a lie to deceive him. Bukhari, Volume 5, #369
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina40428.htm
However, unlike most religions, within Islam there are certain provisions under which lying and deceiving is not simply tolerated, but actually encouraged. In his book “The spirit of Islam,” Afif A. Tabbarah writes in page 247, “Lying is not always bad, to be sure; there are times when telling a lie is more profitable and better for the general welfare, and for the settlement of conciliation among people, than telling the truth. “
This point is proven by numerous incidences in the life of Mohammed. He often lied and instructed his followers to do the same. He rationalized that the prospect of success in missions to extend Islam’s influence overrode Allah’s initial prohibitions against lying. A good example of sanctioned lying is the account of the assassinations of Kaab Ibn al-Ashrf, and Shaaban Ibn Khalid al-Hazly. Mohammed reportedly allowed his assassins lie to them in order to lure them into a place where they could easily butcher them.
The Quran alleges that Allah sanctions lies and deception:
“Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth Allah make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful.” Surah 5:89
“Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief, except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.” Surah 16: 106
The noted Islamic commentator, Al-Tabary, explained Surah 16:106 as a verse that had been revealed to Mohammed after he learned that Ammar Ibn Yasser was forced to deny his faith in Mohammed when kidnapped by the Banu Moghera tribe. Mohammed consoled Ammar by telling him, “If they turned, you turn.” (Meaning: if they again capture you, you are allowed to deny me again.)
http://www.islamreview.com/articles/masters.shtml
There, maybe this will convince you that I wasn't full of a bunch of jibber-jabber.
The clear diffrerence in Islam is that there is a clear thing such as sanctioned lying.
If you don't know this then you will not understand Islam. If you like you see things through rose collored glasses then thats up to you.
"It is important to realise that Islam abhors lying in all situations. It should be noted however that there are cases when telling a lie is acceptable."
http://www.islamicvoice.com/january.2000/hadith.htm
The common Moslem belief is that it is allowable to tell a falsehood on four occasions:
1st, to save one's life;
2nd, to effect a peace or reconciliation;
3rd, to persuade a woman;
4th, on the occasion of a journey or expedition
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Index/L/lying.html
There are no absolute justifications in Islam and the Prophet has asked us to tell truth even under the harshest circumstances of oppression. However, one may choose not to tell the truth when:
http://islam-usa.com/r32.html
" When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible " (Ref: Ahmad Ibn Naqib al-Misri, The Reliance of the Traveller, translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller , Amana publications, 1997, section r8.2, page 745).
Imam Ghazali does not say this without knowledge. He is basing his fatwa on the words and examples of the Prophet himself.
In one hadith we read that the prophet calls upon his followers to assassin Ka’b ibn Ashraf, the chief of a Jewish tribe who was wary of Muhammad and tells them it is okay to tell a lie to deceive him. Bukhari, Volume 5, #369
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina40428.htm
However, unlike most religions, within Islam there are certain provisions under which lying and deceiving is not simply tolerated, but actually encouraged. In his book “The spirit of Islam,” Afif A. Tabbarah writes in page 247, “Lying is not always bad, to be sure; there are times when telling a lie is more profitable and better for the general welfare, and for the settlement of conciliation among people, than telling the truth. “
This point is proven by numerous incidences in the life of Mohammed. He often lied and instructed his followers to do the same. He rationalized that the prospect of success in missions to extend Islam’s influence overrode Allah’s initial prohibitions against lying. A good example of sanctioned lying is the account of the assassinations of Kaab Ibn al-Ashrf, and Shaaban Ibn Khalid al-Hazly. Mohammed reportedly allowed his assassins lie to them in order to lure them into a place where they could easily butcher them.
The Quran alleges that Allah sanctions lies and deception:
“Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth Allah make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful.” Surah 5:89
“Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief, except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.” Surah 16: 106
The noted Islamic commentator, Al-Tabary, explained Surah 16:106 as a verse that had been revealed to Mohammed after he learned that Ammar Ibn Yasser was forced to deny his faith in Mohammed when kidnapped by the Banu Moghera tribe. Mohammed consoled Ammar by telling him, “If they turned, you turn.” (Meaning: if they again capture you, you are allowed to deny me again.)
http://www.islamreview.com/articles/masters.shtml
There, maybe this will convince you that I wasn't full of a bunch of jibber-jabber.
The clear diffrerence in Islam is that there is a clear thing such as sanctioned lying.
If you don't know this then you will not understand Islam. If you like you see things through rose collored glasses then thats up to you.
Not really, I wouldn't call myself an expert. But I did do some studying up on it. I wanted to delve into the particular mindset, what I found this is something totaly alien to most westerners.
Personaly, I myself perfer to be informed on a subject before making a post (unlike some people. LOL). With the knowledge I have I will post what I know. At least I try to do this most of the time.
Personaly, I myself perfer to be informed on a subject before making a post (unlike some people. LOL). With the knowledge I have I will post what I know. At least I try to do this most of the time.
Duty Honor Country
Active member
I am very glad that you are informed on the issue, and I hope you were not offended by my request for sources. From time to time, there are elements on the forum who try to cause trouble. I was making sure you were not one of those elements. It is quite apparent you are not!!! 
Thanks for the good info.
SGT Doody
Thanks for the good info.SGT Doody
Your welcome.
I wasn't offended, I'm glad you ask for facts, since like you said there are some elements who like to cause trouble. Even I am somewhat irritated by them.
Anyways I was trying to show certain aspects of this that us Westerners may not understand or have a clue to, since having to interact and deal with certain aspects of Islam will probably affect us more and more as time goes on.
I wasn't offended, I'm glad you ask for facts, since like you said there are some elements who like to cause trouble. Even I am somewhat irritated by them.
Anyways I was trying to show certain aspects of this that us Westerners may not understand or have a clue to, since having to interact and deal with certain aspects of Islam will probably affect us more and more as time goes on.
Duty Honor Country
Active member
gladius said:
As an American who spent a year in the Middle East, I can say you are 100% on that fact. My knowledge on Islam is shaky at best, and I knew more than most soldiers over there. I picked up a general guide to Islam. The next time I go over there, I'll have a little more understanding of how things work over there.