Israel gets F-35!
The Other Guy
Spam King
and they'll be in the hands of great pilots.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Good news. I'm sure you're very happy Sherman. Now to see if South Korea's going to get any of those. After all they do have a ship capable of carrying them!
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Currently only being used as a helicopter carrier.
Hopefully they'll put some sidewinders on the helicopters just in case.
Lunatik
Active member
Just for the record, Turkey is also considering the Dokdo class for its LPD/HPD requirement. It'd make another cool Korean-Turkish joint venture.
Currently only being used as a helicopter carrier.
Hopefully they'll put some sidewinders on the helicopters just in case.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Well considering how much it costs to develop, make and then have our military buy one of these, we sure could use some export customers!
UnitedSomalia
Banned
I think this is unnecessary for congress to approve it. And here are my reasons:
1) It will begin an arms race in the region with the Saudis and UAE trying to acquire similar aircraft such as the Euro fighter which the Saudis are already doing, and the even the SU-35 or the soon to come SU-45. The Saudis have lately shown interest in diversifying some of their equipment and they have bought some Russian toys.
2) It may end up causing Russia to deploy the S-400 in the naval base in Syria for air protection thus introducing more advance arms in an already volitiale region. It may even spur the Iranians and Syrians to obtain the S-400 and SU-35s.
3) It will be more unneccessary burdern to the American treasury and the American tax payers pockets to finance those expensive planes for the Israelis specially at a time such as this when the American economy is in such high deficiet and in ruins.
4) It will expose this very high tech and secret American plane into falling into the wrong hands such as if war breaks out and Syrians have S-400 and the Russians have the S-400 at their naval base these planes can end up getting shot down and wisked away to Moscow for analysis. The S-400 is capable of tracking, engaging and shooting down targets well over hundreds of miles away basically those S-400s in Syria will be capable of tracking anything that is even flying in the Israeli skies looking at how small Israel is and the range of the S-400.
5) Other American allies may become angry with the Americans for not getting those planes while Israel gets them; thus, alienating much of America's allies at a time when America badly needs allies.
"One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist."-Yasser Arafat
1) It will begin an arms race in the region with the Saudis and UAE trying to acquire similar aircraft such as the Euro fighter which the Saudis are already doing, and the even the SU-35 or the soon to come SU-45. The Saudis have lately shown interest in diversifying some of their equipment and they have bought some Russian toys.
2) It may end up causing Russia to deploy the S-400 in the naval base in Syria for air protection thus introducing more advance arms in an already volitiale region. It may even spur the Iranians and Syrians to obtain the S-400 and SU-35s.
3) It will be more unneccessary burdern to the American treasury and the American tax payers pockets to finance those expensive planes for the Israelis specially at a time such as this when the American economy is in such high deficiet and in ruins.
4) It will expose this very high tech and secret American plane into falling into the wrong hands such as if war breaks out and Syrians have S-400 and the Russians have the S-400 at their naval base these planes can end up getting shot down and wisked away to Moscow for analysis. The S-400 is capable of tracking, engaging and shooting down targets well over hundreds of miles away basically those S-400s in Syria will be capable of tracking anything that is even flying in the Israeli skies looking at how small Israel is and the range of the S-400.
5) Other American allies may become angry with the Americans for not getting those planes while Israel gets them; thus, alienating much of America's allies at a time when America badly needs allies.
"One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist."-Yasser Arafat
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
American equipment > Russian equipment
Almost every single time especially when it comes to the high tech stuff.
Sukhoi can stick as many high numbers as they want but right now if you can't get past the stealth you're a generation behind, no matter how many back flips, Cobras or double-triple Cobra python etc etc whatever your plane can pull off.
As for other allies, the question will be whether or not they can afford these things.
Remember that an F-117 was shot down during the peacekeeping operations in the former Yugoslavia but the guys who got the wreckage haven't been able to do a whole lot with them. And I'm sure the Russians got a good piece themselves.
Almost every single time especially when it comes to the high tech stuff.
Sukhoi can stick as many high numbers as they want but right now if you can't get past the stealth you're a generation behind, no matter how many back flips, Cobras or double-triple Cobra python etc etc whatever your plane can pull off.
As for other allies, the question will be whether or not they can afford these things.
Remember that an F-117 was shot down during the peacekeeping operations in the former Yugoslavia but the guys who got the wreckage haven't been able to do a whole lot with them. And I'm sure the Russians got a good piece themselves.
No ****, your against it...Who wouldve thought
The Saudis already have F15S and other advanced toys. If they want to buy Russian or Euro stuff they can go ahead, but I doubt they would benefit. The S-35 is vaporware, only a few made and the Russians cant build it anyhow.
The Russians are already selling their junk to the Syrians. The Syrians are currently 25 years behind Israel in aircraft and air defence systems, and they buy what they can. The point is to keep Israel lead.
The sales of weapons to Israel allow the US to finance its military development by means of "foreighn aid" money. Worked for years and no reason it should stop. This is not an extra ammount of money, it will be taken off israels current US aid.
The risk of the F-35 being shot down in Israeli hands dosent seem higher than the risk it will be shot down in amrican hands. Israel hasent lost a fighter jet in combat for more than 20 years.
Most of USA allies and client states will get them.
Region
What makes you think Russia would deploy a S-400 air defense system in Syria? Syria has made Russia's equipment look bad enough over the years.
Syria is a risk customer for anything good just like Iran is period. Even China doesn't sell anything top of the line to either.
What makes you think Russia would deploy a S-400 air defense system in Syria? Syria has made Russia's equipment look bad enough over the years.
Syria is a risk customer for anything good just like Iran is period. Even China doesn't sell anything top of the line to either.
factanonverba
Banned
The only country who can receive this aircraft right now is :
- U.K : 135
- Canada : Official DND article claimed Canada should buying 100 but isn't sure
- Italy : 131
- Turkey : 116
- Netherlands : 100
- Australia : 100
- Norway : not sure
- Danmark : not sure but 46 are planing
All this country gave more Million dollar like Canada with more 500 Million dollar and 144 contracts (1/3) evaluated at US$6.8 billion, were awarded from University, Lockheed Martin Canada, BAE systems Canada.
Israel will receive the F-35 only in 2015-2016, after all the list who are the priority for Locheed Martin and Northrop Grumman. Remember Iran received the new S-400
- U.K : 135
- Canada : Official DND article claimed Canada should buying 100 but isn't sure
- Italy : 131
- Turkey : 116
- Netherlands : 100
- Australia : 100
- Norway : not sure
- Danmark : not sure but 46 are planing
All this country gave more Million dollar like Canada with more 500 Million dollar and 144 contracts (1/3) evaluated at US$6.8 billion, were awarded from University, Lockheed Martin Canada, BAE systems Canada.
Israel will receive the F-35 only in 2015-2016, after all the list who are the priority for Locheed Martin and Northrop Grumman. Remember Iran received the new S-400
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S-400
Hi factanonverba
I thought the S-400 is in testing around Moscow in two locations only can you provide a link that Iran has it.
Here is a good military blog that listed SAM sites
http://geimint.blogspot.com/
Hi factanonverba
I thought the S-400 is in testing around Moscow in two locations only can you provide a link that Iran has it.
Here is a good military blog that listed SAM sites
http://geimint.blogspot.com/
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factanonverba
Banned
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=21983§ionid=351020602
Last update in 2007, and the S-400 is operational since 2007 is only a modernisation of S-300. Like Patriot Pack 3, this new version can detected any "Stealth" , "Radar cross section " and "Low Flying" aircraft.
Users or futures users :
- China spend more 500 million dollar
- United Arab Emirates
- Greece
- Iran
- Turkey
And if iran don't have S-400 right now they still used the world best anti-balistic missiles and aircraft in the world the S-300...because for right now we don't know is possibility for the S-400.
Here is a video about Iran want acquired new S-400 (Isn't a good sources) but still talk about.
| S-400 | |
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S-400
Hello factanonverba
I'm a little confuse in your post you mention:
Even for future users nothing has been signed
- China spend more 500 million dollar-Only S-300
- United Arab Emirates - Not sure
- Greece - I check with a Greece friend only S-300, Greece might be interested if such a upgrade were offered.
- Iran - No, parts of the radar systems, maybe your thinking of the Thor?
- Turkey- Only older parts for training purposes not the complete system
Then on the bottom of your post you wrote:
Remember most of Iran's important armed purchases were pre-Iraqi-Iranian war and after the tankers wars heavy bans were placed on them.
The only modern weapon Iran has are the 25 or 28 Thor air-defense units purchases. Short range SAMs, good but not good enough to be useful and lack numbers needed, besides they can be targeted with stand-off weapons.
Iran needs to support these Thor's with a mid range and then long range SAM in layers backup by modern fighters. Once parts of the Iranian network is taken down target data won't reach these Thor's, that shorten their effective even more.
Not buying or being able to buy modern fighters in over ten years hurt Iran a lot and really can't defend themselves if a real air attack was placed against them.
One USN carrier has 70/80 modern fighters that's basically more then Iran's AF has? There are hundreds of US fighters in the region not counting other countries the only ace Iran holds is shooting heavy rockets at other counties and not just Israel. I don't know if all of these rockets/missile can be stopped kind of like North Korea's artillery pointing south. I'm not sure if Iran can hit at what they aim at either.
I'm not talking about putting boots on the ground just a air strike. If Iran couldn't put away Iraq in there eight year war and haven't purchase new equipment or training since, fill in the blanks.
Remember a few months ago maybe a little longer when Israel went into Syria and got right past their so called air defenses? The same as that from from all four side with all the important targets checked off.
Hello factanonverba
I'm a little confuse in your post you mention:
* As far I can find out nobody besides Russia has the S-400, that web site isn't a great source.
Even for future users nothing has been signed
- China spend more 500 million dollar-Only S-300
- United Arab Emirates - Not sure
- Greece - I check with a Greece friend only S-300, Greece might be interested if such a upgrade were offered.
- Iran - No, parts of the radar systems, maybe your thinking of the Thor?
- Turkey- Only older parts for training purposes not the complete system
Then on the bottom of your post you wrote:
* On the top you say they do and list others and on the bottom you "if"? Why would you think Iran's has advance modern air defenses? I rate them on or near the same level as Syria nothing more. Breakable by almost any NATO trained etc country if push came to shove.
Remember most of Iran's important armed purchases were pre-Iraqi-Iranian war and after the tankers wars heavy bans were placed on them.
The only modern weapon Iran has are the 25 or 28 Thor air-defense units purchases. Short range SAMs, good but not good enough to be useful and lack numbers needed, besides they can be targeted with stand-off weapons.
Iran needs to support these Thor's with a mid range and then long range SAM in layers backup by modern fighters. Once parts of the Iranian network is taken down target data won't reach these Thor's, that shorten their effective even more.
Not buying or being able to buy modern fighters in over ten years hurt Iran a lot and really can't defend themselves if a real air attack was placed against them.
One USN carrier has 70/80 modern fighters that's basically more then Iran's AF has? There are hundreds of US fighters in the region not counting other countries the only ace Iran holds is shooting heavy rockets at other counties and not just Israel. I don't know if all of these rockets/missile can be stopped kind of like North Korea's artillery pointing south. I'm not sure if Iran can hit at what they aim at either.
I'm not talking about putting boots on the ground just a air strike. If Iran couldn't put away Iraq in there eight year war and haven't purchase new equipment or training since, fill in the blanks.
Remember a few months ago maybe a little longer when Israel went into Syria and got right past their so called air defenses? The same as that from from all four side with all the important targets checked off.
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UnitedSomalia
Banned
Iran technically is the strongest nation in the Persian Gulf, they dominate that region. Iran's air defense a lot more advance than Syria, they not only have Tor M-29 SAMs but they also have many other French, American and Russian copied air defense systems. They also have MiG-29s, SU-27s and such for first line air defense and they have upgraded F-14s, F-4s, F-5s for second line air defense. These American aircraft are not the same that were operated 30 years ago, they have new frames, radars, smart bombs/missiles and avionics. When people state that the F-4s, F-5s and F-14s are 20-30 year old aircraft they forget that Iran doesn't still operate the old frames, Iran operates new restructured frames with added and upgraded avionics, radars and missiles. These planes were state of the art at their time and they can still be deadly weapons today with the right radar, avionics and missiles which Iran has.
If Iran has weak air defense system wouldn't America, Israel and other enemies penetrated their airspace? Iran is richer and has more money than Syria to update their weapons, Iran also has a robust domestic arms manufacturing capability which Syria doesn't. One can't put Iran which is a regional superpower in the same category as Syria which is a delibitated power, its like putting Canada in the same category as America in terms of military capability.
No one has penetrated Iranian airspace since the Iran-Iraq war, that must say something about their capabilities or at least their capability to deter their enemies. Even Syria, Iraq or any Middle Eastern country never detered Israel and America the way Iran did that speaks for itself, even Pakistan who is a nuclear nation doesn't deter violations of its airspace or territory the way Iran does; that speaks volumes of Iranian ability to deter and defend their airspace and territory.
If Iran has weak air defense system wouldn't America, Israel and other enemies penetrated their airspace? Iran is richer and has more money than Syria to update their weapons, Iran also has a robust domestic arms manufacturing capability which Syria doesn't. One can't put Iran which is a regional superpower in the same category as Syria which is a delibitated power, its like putting Canada in the same category as America in terms of military capability.
No one has penetrated Iranian airspace since the Iran-Iraq war, that must say something about their capabilities or at least their capability to deter their enemies. Even Syria, Iraq or any Middle Eastern country never detered Israel and America the way Iran did that speaks for itself, even Pakistan who is a nuclear nation doesn't deter violations of its airspace or territory the way Iran does; that speaks volumes of Iranian ability to deter and defend their airspace and territory.
If Iran has weak air defense system
Do you happen to have any tail numbers for those Su-27 by any chance? Like you mention before "shoots hole's" in your comments pretty fast.
Anyway like your Iranian Su-27s so magical are they not , the rest of the weapons Iran bought can mostly be research if one would bother doing so.
Sorry for going off topic I see since post 13# that F-35 aren't the topic anymore. Mod's I was wondering could these last post's be moved into Iranian weapons thread or a S-400 thread? I'm hoping to add to the 'The Israel gets F-35s thread" as time goes buy if would be a good source of information having it one place.
Do you happen to have any tail numbers for those Su-27 by any chance? Like you mention before "shoots hole's" in your comments pretty fast.
Maybe those 10,000 row boats of death oh better yet maybe they could tow (10) F-14s up next time for the next Iranian photo shoot, that would be most glorious.
Don't be so sure of yourself so I assume from your post your sort of an Iranian supporter as well, that's just so interesting.
Anyway like your Iranian Su-27s so magical are they not , the rest of the weapons Iran bought can mostly be research if one would bother doing so.
Basically on the same level it would be a hard fine trying to locate Iran's purchases of modern SAMs.
Sorry for going off topic I see since post 13# that F-35 aren't the topic anymore. Mod's I was wondering could these last post's be moved into Iranian weapons thread or a S-400 thread? I'm hoping to add to the 'The Israel gets F-35s thread" as time goes buy if would be a good source of information having it one place.
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