Info on the CETME Ameli LMG wanted

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Doug97

Active member
I'm interested in the Spanish army's light machine gun, the CETME Ameli. There an entry in world.guns.ru (http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg25-e.htm) about it, but it's very short and the pics aren't too good.

ameli.jpg


I've searched on Google, but there doesn't seem to be that much about it, which is strange since it's currently in use by a modern army. I'd like to know the non-stats stuff, like is it reliable, how easy is it to use, its cost, are there any variants etc?

On paper it looks like a very good light support weapon, possibly better than the SAW/Minimi para, but I'm not aware that it was trialled by either the British or American armies when they were looking for a weapon to replace/supplement the M60 or L86 LSW. Its rate of fire is particularly impressive, higher than the MG42 (the feared German LMG of WWII fame).

Is there anyone here who's ever fired it, or know someone who has?
 
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I would rather have the MG-3...

Especially in the field, where the stronger mechanism of the MG-3 is able to cope with quite a bit of snow and vegetation... I doubt the Ameli is able to function as well under the same circumstances...

I understand that people like beltfeds because they believe it gives them massive firepower, only traded for some extra weight and bulk... Well, that isn´t the full truth... As well as extra weight and bulk, you get more failure-sources, and belts are not always the most pleasant way to carry ammunition... If you have to do fire and movement, FIBUA or patrolling (which is what infantry mostly do), you are much better off with a heavy-barreled automatic rifle than a beltfed.

Of course one automatic rifle cant really be measured against a beltfed in terms of firepower... But two will be more than equal, and three even more so... Because an automatic rifle is basically just an assaultrifle, it can be handled in the same way too... Thereby the squad will actually be more agile with three automatic-rifles than with one beltfed (or two), and all the soldiers in the squad can carry ammo for the automatic rifles in their basic load.

However an automatic rifle must be built for fast reloading, and preferably assisted reloading... This is the main problem with the L86, as well as it weighs more than it should have...
 
That's all great, but have you seen one fired?

I guess both the US and the British Army forgot to ask you for your opinions on beltfed weapons when they decided to adopt the Minimi variants ... ;-)

What's confusing me is the lack of information about the Ameli available on the net. Most weapons manufacturers have corporate websites that describe their products, but not CETME. Also, the fact that the Ameli is in service with an armed force (unlike other weapons which are all over the net, e.g. F2000 etc.) means that I expected there to be more, but there isn't ...

Is it in service with any armed force other than the Spanish?
 
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Well, If I am not very wrong, I believe the Ameli is going to be replaced by the HK MG-43...

I´ve also tried to google up things about the Ameli, and the little I´ve found has been negative rumours...

I´ve never seen an Ameli fired, and I´ve not even seen one in real life... I have however fired tens of thousansd of rounds through the MG-3, and found that extremely enjoyable. But I didn´t like carrying it. Not because it was heavy, but because it is a ***** to carry with ammo in it. Both with a short loose belt, and with a small box.

You are right that nobody asked me about my opinion on beltfeds... But it seems like the US Marines are thinking about procuring automatic rifles...

I do not dislike beltfeds, I actually love beltfeds, but I prefer to use them in a role which is more stationary. Thereby avoiding that infantry is slowed down by too heavy and cumbersome equipment during an assault.
 
dobrodan said:
Well, If I am not very wrong, I believe the Ameli is going to be replaced by the HK MG-43...

I´ve also tried to google up things about the Ameli, and the little I´ve found has been negative rumours...
Click to expand...

Interesting ... can you provide some links?
 
Thanks Snub!

I've found the following page which states that in 1985 the British MoD signed a contract to buy 600 Amelis. I guess the deal fell through, and when the MoD (eventually) decided it wanted a belt-fed after all, the Minimi was chosen instead.

http://web.jet.es/rafa/e_spsteel_cetme.html

Anyone know if this theory is true?

[EDIT]

Just found this posted on a forum by a guy who used to be in the USMC:

"Back in the late 70's, I was part of an evaluation team that was testing different designs of M.G.s for replacing the M-60 in the squad automatic role. There was a design from Spain that was, in my opinion, a dream to shoot and maintain. It was a somewhat smaller version of the German MG42, chambered in .223. I loved it! But, it for some reason didn't make the grade, and was eliminated early in the testing. I think it was due more to personal bias on the part of some Officers on the team, than to a shortcoming in the gun."

Anyone know how I can find out more about this trial?
 
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Looks like a fine weapon. Maybe, now the price will come down and we civilians can get our hands on them.
 
The CETME Ameli LMG is a fine weapon system in my opinion. It's a smaller MG-42 chambered in 5.56X45MM. I think that the MG-42/MG-3 System is the best Machine Gun System on the market.

I've played with one. It's pretty cool. My only deal is that Civilians can't own them. Damn Machine Gun laws.
 
AMELi

The Cetme ameli was built for remplace the MG 42 as light machine gun for a squad.

I have used if at the INFANTRY ACADEMY but is not being used in the army because it was a really good prototype that when they wanted to build it cheaper It became a poor machine so we still using the MG-42

If you want tecnical data or pictures from the original I can try to send you.

It was an excelent prototype that become a poor machine gun
 
Interesting, thanks JmDt.

Could you be more specific regarding what makes the Ameli so poor in your opinion?
 
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Ameli

The ameli is a light machinegun that was created for give fire suport to the squad level because the MG-42 (M1A1) was too heavy and was 7.62 cal. so we built the AMELI as a 5.56 light MG.

The prototypes were excelent and was sold overseas but when the AMELI was put on high scale produciton (in order to be issued to squad level) the goverment of spain wanted a cheaper version and pushed SANTA BARBARA (builder) to create AMELI with cheaper materials.

The experience was so poor that the spanish military still using MG-42 wich is really reliable but heavy.

HERE you have all the technical data:

- Calibre: 5,56x45.
- Velocidad inicial: 875 m/s.
- Energía en boca: 1.570 j.
- Alcance eficaz: 1.000 m.
- Clase de tiro: ráfagas.
- Cadencia de tiro: 900 disparos/minuto.
- Municiones: cartucho ordinario y trazador.​
- Capacidad del cargador: 100 0 200 cartuchos.
- Alimentación: cinta de eslabones desintegrables, almacenados en un
contenedor de material sintético, acoplable al costado izquierdo del arma.
La cinta puede ser también no desintegrable.
- Sistema de puntería: alza integrada en el asa de transporte y punto de
mira regulable y plegable. El alza se puede graduar desde 200 a 1.000 m
(200, 400, 600 y 800m).​
Pesos:
- Arma con cinta de 200 cartuchos: 8,3 kg.
- Arma descargada sin bípode: 5,2 kg.
- Bípode: 0,4 kg.
Dimensiones:
- Longitud del arma: 970 mm.
- Longitud del cañón: 400 mm.
- Longitud de la línea de mira: 340 mm.

​
 
JmDt said:
The experience was so poor that the spanish military still using MG-42 wich is really reliable but heavy.
Click to expand...
So the mass-produced Ameli was unreliable?

When was it removed from service in Spain? Was it also replaced by the MG-42 in Mexico?
 
When they wnated to issue the AMELI to regular army the goverment decide that was expensive so they forced the negociation whith the builder to make it cheaper so the builder used low quality steel and so on...

Don´t know about mexico.

But the prototypes were excelellent I think that UK bought some
 
The Old, Heavy But Excellent Mg 42

MG.JPG











Here you have the 3 MG 42 of my platoon
WWII to 2006 probably the best Machine gun ever buildt
 
JmDt said:
When they wnated to issue the AMELI to regular army the goverment decide that was expensive so they forced the negociation whith the builder to make it cheaper so the builder used low quality steel and so on...

Don´t know about mexico.

But the prototypes were excelellent I think that UK bought some
Click to expand...
That would explain why some sites mentioned the UK buying 600 of them ...

Were there a lot of the cheap ones made before the army realised they were no good?
 
Yes It Was issued to several infantry units (Legion, brigada paracaidista, Infanteria de marina...) But they decided to not use it and use the MG42 instead (that´s the one they heve been using for years) and we have tons of AMELI stored.
 
The MG42 used the recoil impulse to move the locked barrel and bolt assembly rearward until after a short distance, the bolt unlocked from the barrel and continued rearward ejecting the spent case and moving the belt. I'm not sure that the 5.56mm cartridge generates enough of a recoil impulse to do this reliably.
The belt fed HK's are roller delayed blowback instead of roller locked. This means they don't have to use recoil energy to move the barrel.
Perhaps that was the downfall of the Ameli.
 
No the that was not the problem because all the prototype series where excellent. The main problenm that I had using It was because of weakeness of the materials and the feeding sistem that didn´t work well (If you Know the MG 42 You can relialise that the feeding sistem is in the cover that is on the top) So when I was firing whith the AMELI I had to push the cover to let it adjust OK.

I Agree whith you that 5.56 has little recoil (That problem was shown in the CETME L ) but that was not the problem of the AMELI.

The CETME C assault rifle (The 7.62 one) is one of the best rifles of it´s generation (The HK G-3 is a licensed version of the CETME C) but when we wanted a 5.56 version CETME L it became a poor rifle so we now use the HK G 36.
 
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