Favorite heroes of WWI and WWII or group of heroes

[Delta]

I gotta say My favorite In WWI is
The Lost Battalion
If you don't know or want to know more Search up "the lost battalion" or "77th Sustainment Brigade"
It's pretty interesting.

My favorite in WWII is
Audie Murphy
He has a book and a movie based on his experience in WWII both with the name "To Hell and Back" The book is good I haven't watched the movie yet.

How about you guys?

 

[MontyB]

I gotta say My favorite In WWI is
The Lost Battalion
If you don't know or want to know more Search up "the lost battalion" or "77th Sustainment Brigade"
It's pretty interesting.

My favorite in WWII is
Audie Murphy
He has a book and a movie based on his experience in WWII both with the name "To Hell and Back" The book is good I haven't watched the movie yet.

How about you guys?

I have to be honest; I don't have any "Heroes" from the era, there are people and actions I admire but there are none that I idolise enough to consider as heroes.
A better question for me would be "If you could interview anyone from the era who would it be?"

For me that would be:
From a New Zealand point of view
- Sir Keith Park, Commander of 11 Group RAF during the Battle of Britain.
- Major General Sir Howard Karl Kippenberger, admired greatly by the troops of the NZ 2nd Division yet almost unknown within New Zealand.

Allied
- Neville Chamberlain, much maligned but I would like to hear his story and in many ways I think he was a far better leader than many admit.

German:
Hermann Hoth, I am not going to downplay the fact that this guy committed war crimes nor that he was an ardent Nazi but his planning and execution of Operation Winter Storm given the situation and conditions at the time was nothing short of impressive.

Albert Speer, what he did with German manufacturing in the last couple of years of the war was outstanding again given the conditions he was facing.

Now obviously there are loads more (Scientists like Oppenheimer, Heisenberg, Mathematicians like Alan Turing) and this list could go on for pages but those are the ones that leap to mind immediately.

 

[Delta]

I have to be honest; I don't have any "Heroes" from the era, there are people and actions I admire but there are none that I idolise enough to consider as heroes.
A better question for me would be "If you could interview anyone from the era who would it be?"

For me that would be:
From a New Zealand point of view
- Sir Keith Park, Commander of 11 Group RAF during the Battle of Britain.
- Major General Sir Howard Karl Kippenberger, admired greatly by the troops of the NZ 2nd Division yet almost unknown within New Zealand.

Allied
- Neville Chamberlain, much maligned but I would like to hear his story and in many ways I think he was a far better leader than many admit.

German:
Hermann Hoth, I am not going to downplay the fact that this guy committed war crimes nor that he was an ardent Nazi but his planning and execution of Operation Winter Storm given the situation and conditions at the time was nothing short of impressive.

Albert Speer, what he did with German manufacturing in the last couple of years of the war was outstanding again given the conditions he was facing.

Now obviously there are loads more (Scientists like Oppenheimer, Heisenberg, Mathematicians like Alan Turing) and this list could go on for pages but those are the ones that leap to mind immediately

I prefer Winston Churchill over Chamberlain

 

[MontyB]

I prefer Winston Churchill over Chamberlain

But without Chamberlain you would not have had Churchill, Churchill is popular in Britain obviously but he isn't quite so well liked throughout the Commonwealth as he had a tendency to latch on to hairbrained ideas that got a lot of people killed (The Dardanelles campaign that saw a lot of New Zealanders and Australians die for nothing would be one of them), I would also suggest India may disagree with you entirely.

So why Churchill?

 

[Delta]

But without Chamberlain you would not have had Churchill, Churchill is popular in Britain obviously but he isn't quite so well liked throughout the Commonwealth as he had a tendency to latch on to hairbrained ideas that got a lot of people killed (The Dardanelles campaign that saw a lot of New Zealanders and Australians die for nothing would be one of them), I would also suggest India may disagree with you entirely.

So why Churchill?

Well who did more with WWII?

 

[I3BrigPvSk]

I don't really like the word hero/es. but I like to listen to Victoria Cross and Medal of Honor recipients. There is a good documentary on YouTube about the NZ SAS soldier awarded the VC, it is called the reluctant hero. He was in the SAS and the VC probably destroyed his military career. If I summarize what VC and MoH recipients say, they are often quite uncomfortable with all the attention around them and they don't view themselves as heroes. They did their job and a bit more than that.

If I got the opportunity to have a chat with any famous person, regardless if they are alive or not. Niccolò Machiavelli is one of them, Sun Tzu (if that was a person or several different commanders), Marie Curie, Alexander Fleming, Charles Darwin, Alexander the Great, and the woman I saw in the grocery store yesterday

 

[MontyB]

I don't really like the word hero/es. but I like to listen to Victoria Cross and Medal of Honor recipients. There is a good documentary on YouTube about the NZ SAS soldier awarded the VC, it is called the reluctant hero. He was in the SAS and the VC probably destroyed his military career. If I summarize what VC and MoH recipients say, they are often quite uncomfortable with all the attention around them and they don't view themselves as heroes. They did their job and a bit more than that.

If I got the opportunity to have a chat with any famous person, regardless if they are alive or not. Niccolò Machiavelli is one of them, Sun Tzu (if that was a person or several different commanders), Marie Curie, Alexander Fleming, Charles Darwin, Alexander the Great, and the woman I saw in the grocery store yesterday

As I understand it he did go back to Afghanistan after winning the VC but I think the problem arose when his photo was published in a newspaper which kind of screwed up his anonymity and no one wants the winner of their highest award captured or killed in combat.

Charles Upham continued to serve in North Africa even after his first VC in Crete, he received his second one after the war as he was a POW at the time it was awarded.

Yes there are a huge number of people I would love to interact with but I only listed WW1/2 individuals as it is a WW1/2 thread.

 

[I3BrigPvSk]

If I limited to the dual world wars.

General Eisenhower
Sir Arthur Currie
Major Jack Churchill

Guderian
And beat the crap out of Shörner

There are many more

There are only three who got the VC with Bars and Charles Upham is the only one who survived. The other two got the VC posthumously. The medical officer won it during the first world war and the other one got his first VC during the Boer war and the other during the first world war.

There is a collector of medals and he has written books about the VC and the GC, I have read his books about the VC

 

[MontyB]

If I limited to the dual world wars.

General Eisenhower
Sir Arthur Currie
Major Jack Churchill

Guderian
And beat the crap out of Shörner

There are many more

There are only three who got the VC with Bars and Charles Upham is the only one who survived. The other two got the VC posthumously. The medical officer won it during the first world war and the other one got his first VC during the Boer war and the other during the first world war.

There is a collector of medals and he has written books about the VC and the GC, I have read his books about the VC

The story of Capt. Noel Godfrey Chavasse is well worth reading up on, I watch a very good documentary about his actions, Uphams distinction is that he is the only combat soldier to have won it twice.

I assume you are talking about the Lord Ashcroft collection.

I was never a fan of Guderian, he claimed credit for things he shouldn't have.

 

[George]

But without Chamberlain you would not have had Churchill, Churchill is popular in Britain obviously but he isn't quite so well liked throughout the Commonwealth as he had a tendency to latch on to hairbrained ideas that got a lot of people killed (The Dardanelles campaign that saw a lot of New Zealanders and Australians die for nothing would be one of them), I would also suggest India may disagree with you entirely.

So why Churchill?

The original plan to force the Dardanelles was brilliant use of obsolete battleships. Had the minesweepers been crewed by professional sailors, or aircraft had radios to guide the ships through the minefields it could have prevented a lot of suffering that happened later.

 

[MontyB]

The original plan to force the Dardanelles was brilliant use of obsolete battleships. Had the minesweepers been crewed by professional sailors, or aircraft had radios to guide the ships through the minefields it could have prevented a lot of suffering that happened later.

That would be true had they been unmanned battleships but they weren't there were thousands on those ships and Churchill's only response to the losses was essentially "so what we can build more ships", he didn't give a crap how many died on those obsolete vessels.

 

[I3BrigPvSk]

The story of Capt. Noel Godfrey Chavasse is well worth reading up on, I watch a very good documentary about his actions, Uphams distinction is that he is the only combat soldier to have won it twice.

I assume you are talking about the Lord Ashcroft collection.

I was never a fan of Guderian, he claimed credit for things he shouldn't have.

I read about Chavasse in the book about the VC by Lord Ashcroft. His collection of VCs and GCs was at the Imperial War Museum a few years ago, I don't know if the collection is still there.

I saw an interview with Upham. The interviewer "kidnapped" him to do an interview about his life.

 

[MontyB]

I read about Chavasse in the book about the VC by Lord Ashcroft. His collection of VCs and GCs was at the Imperial War Museum a few years ago, I don't know if the collection is still there.

I saw an interview with Upham. The interviewer "kidnapped" him to do an interview about his life.

Upham was a typical Kiwi of the period, unfortunately this cannot be said of the current generation who seem to be fixated with vaping and staring at their phones.

Charles Upham

Charles Upham is probably New Zealand's most famous soldier. His actions in Crete in 1941 and Egypt in 1942 led to his becoming one of only three people – and the only combat soldier – ever to win the Victoria Cross twice.

nzhistory.govt.nz

 

[George]

That would be true had they been unmanned battleships but they weren't there were thousands on those ships and Churchill's only response to the losses was essentially "so what we can build more ships", he didn't give a crap how many died on those obsolete vessels.

Compared to the bloodbath going on in France casualties would be few. Haven't seen any casualty count for the Allies vs Turkey part of the War, but if the fleet was successful they might have been spared a huge number of losses.

 

[I3BrigPvSk]

Upham was a typical Kiwi of the period, unfortunately this cannot be said of the current generation who seem to be fixated with vaping and staring at their phones.

Charles Upham

Charles Upham is probably New Zealand's most famous soldier. His actions in Crete in 1941 and Egypt in 1942 led to his becoming one of only three people – and the only combat soldier – ever to win the Victoria Cross twice.

nzhistory.govt.nz

Would you say Willie Apiata is a typical Kiwi too? I'm asking because after watching the documentary about Apiata's VC and other interviews with him and watching the interviews with Upham. They were both laid back.

 

[MontyB]

Would you say Willie Apiata is a typical Kiwi too? I'm asking because after watching the documentary about Apiata's VC and other interviews with him and watching the interviews with Upham. They were both laid back.

It is difficult to explain because I don't understand the current Peter Pan generation as their complete lack of initiative, drive or goals for the future make them almost a different species to the rest of us, but yes I doubt you will find a great deal of variation in the attitudes towards getting things done between Upham, Apiata and infact most Kiwis born prior to 2000.

 

[Delta]

It is difficult to explain because I don't understand the current Peter Pan generation as their complete lack of initiative, drive or goals for the future make them almost a different species to the rest of us, but yes I doubt you will find a great deal of variation in the attitudes towards getting things done between Upham, Apiata and infact most Kiwis born prior to 2000.

Yeah this Generation Is awful. These days there on their phones. When I was there age I was watching raindrops race on the windows. (I still do this to this very day)

 

[I3BrigPvSk]

It is difficult to explain because I don't understand the current Peter Pan generation as their complete lack of initiative, drive or goals for the future make them almost a different species to the rest of us, but yes I doubt you will find a great deal of variation in the attitudes towards getting things done between Upham, Apiata and infact most Kiwis born prior to 2000.

I have a more positive perception of the young. There are many of them here volunteering to serve in the military

I have a question for you. I get the impression the Aussies, the Kiwis, the Canadians, and the South African forces were better than the British during the first world war. The British recruited their officers from the nobility. The others gave the commision to those who had the competence and not after what their ancestors had done during the Napoleonic wars. The soldiers from the dominions were also more outdoor types than their British counterparts and that might have made them better soldiers.

 

[MontyB]

I have a more positive perception of the young. There are many of them here volunteering to serve in the military

I have a question for you. I get the impression the Aussies, the Kiwis, the Canadians, and the South African forces were better than the British during the first world war. The British recruited their officers from the nobility. The others gave the commision to those who had the competence and not after what their ancestors had done during the Napoleonic wars. The soldiers from the dominions were also more outdoor types than their British counterparts and that might have made them better soldiers.

I doubt our youth could spell military and if it interfered with vaping or tiktok they would never sign up.

I don't think Commonwealth forces were better than British forces, I think they were about the same but had different skill sets based on the environment they came from.

I think it worth pointing out that in 1914 much of the Commonwealth was young, less than 100 years as nations (NZs formal European links were 54 years in 1914), developing and largely agricultural nations and were populated by migrating former UK citizens who were mostly working class, this created nations who were used to the hardships of pioneer life and had a great dislike of class systems.

The result of this were Commonwealth troops who were already used to living rough, independent thinking and making do with what they had, traits that had largely disappeared from England after the industrial revolution and the move to urban living, the counter to that is that UK troops were far more cohesive as units because they grew up in large busy environments, you often hear complaints about Commonwealth troops being ill disciplined and unruly.