China-US military debate

If China wanted to take revenge, I can't imagine why it couldn't.
Obviously not a military response (why everyone assumes it is is beyond me).
If the Chinese government chooses not to I'm sure it's for a good reason. The Chinese government tends to be more composed and civil about conflicts than the rest of the Han population.
 
I also don't think it would be a military one, but there are some other revenges that China could take, but the problem is will China do so and why.

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I really don't know if the Chinese will or will not.
I guess it's really up to their government.
My guess is that they will go about some sort of arm twisting.
 
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China holds $1.5 trillion of our debt. They dump it on the market and our economy crashes. Sure they'll hurt, but we'll hurt even more. China wins without launching a single missile, dropping a single paratrooper anyway, sending a single tank out of their tank park/depots or firing a single bullet. The Chinese know how to win without resorting to military means.
 
China holds $1.5 trillion of our debt. They dump it on the market and our economy crashes. Sure they'll hurt, but we'll hurt even more. China wins without launching a single missile, dropping a single paratrooper anyway, sending a single tank out of their tank park/depots or firing a single bullet. The Chinese know how to win without resorting to military means.

Yes, I think economically speaking, China takes advantages in this wrestling, but militarily, China is far away to be a challenging competiter of the US.
 
China holds $1.5 trillion of our debt. They dump it on the market and our economy crashes. Sure they'll hurt, but we'll hurt even more. China wins without launching a single missile, dropping a single paratrooper anyway, sending a single tank out of their tank park/depots or firing a single bullet. The Chinese know how to win without resorting to military means.

US economy crashes, causing world wide economic crashes, causing China's economy to crash. Excellent strategy.

I personelly think China got shafted by buying up so much US paper debt. They will be lucky to see 1 cent on $100.00. PT Barnum once said, "There is a sucker born every minute."

Who is China going to get to help them collect the debt?:)
 
The all mighty China makes me giggle. Peasant farmers/toothbrush/toy/dog collar makers by day. All seeing world manipulators by night. Yes the growth of thier state controlled economy is impressive. You have .00001% of the population making the decisions to make it happen. The rest are merely the tools to power it.
 
The all mighty China makes me giggle. Peasant farmers/toothbrush/toy/dog collar makers by day. All seeing world manipulators by night. Yes the growth of thier state controlled economy is impressive. You have .00001% of the population making the decisions to make it happen. The rest are merely the tools to power it.

Do you enjoy rhetoric my friend?
You should never underestimate your enemy and from your posts I see you do it a lot. The enemy is very smart, very patient and very resourceful. And very determined.
 
Where are the Chinese inventions? Where is the originality and individulality? Why does the government not allow it's own people to freely surf the web? Take China back to the year 1900 and isolate from all technical achievements by all other nations. Where do you think they would be right now? I think of it more as counter-rhetoric.

Go down a list of Western nations and think what they are exceptional at.

Germany - engineering.
France - clothing/art/musical history.
Japan - robotics/ electrical engineering
USA - technological innovation
UK - military history / cars / shipping
Italy - cars
Spain - military history / shipping

on and on and on......... That list took me 2 minutes.

China - ?????
 
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China
- Mass
- Coordination
- Industriousness
- Individual discipline
- Cultural emphasis on education

If I recall correctly, the first three being America's strengths during World War II.
In terms of tech, the Germans were ahead overall and the nuke was developed largely with the work of European scientists who had fled from the Nazis.

They are lacking in ingenuity at this point. This is their hurdle and what keeps the rest of us still ahead of the curve. I believe with the number and quality of scientists that are returning to China this may (and I say, may) change.
The issue is not necessarily where they are now but where they can be in a short period of time.
Look at the case study of South Korea. 20 years ago, it was just one of many 3rd world countries in the world. Today it is without a doubt a developed country (Except Itaewon, which for some reason has chosen to stay in the 1980's). The Chinese can possibly do the same, but with the mass of their country one can only imagine the sort of results they can pull off.
South Korea couldn't invent or innovate anything better than a paper bag a decade or two ago, today it has pretty much replaced Japan as the consumer electronics power house. And unlike the myth, South Korea did the most important parts of this development while under various military dictatorships.
I don't believe there's some special rule that they're not capable of doing the same because they're Chinese. They are capable. Their government is not a free one by no means, but their relationship with their population is not one where they can simply call all the shots without thinking twice.
As a soldier, I am sure you are no stranger to giving up your personal freedom for the sake of the Army. In China, except for separatists/freedom fighters and some minorities, they believe in self sacrifice for the sake of their country. So what you do for the Army, what they're doing for their country is not so different. Difference is we believe that freedom should be enjoyed by the population. They don't necessarily agree. Courage, Honor and Commitment in all walks of life.
And there's also an obsession with education. That's where I think the future of a country is made anyway.
The way they think is very different from the way you think.

I have to go for now.

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Where are the Chinese inventions? Where is the originality and individulality? Why does the government not allow it's own people to freely surf the web? Take China back to the year 1900 and isolate from all technical achievements by all other nations.
The story of modern China starts roughly in the 80's. It's like talking about Korea pre-1965. Totally pointless.
Where do you think they would be right now? I think of it more as counter-rhetoric.


Go down a list of Western nations and think what they are exceptional at.

Germany - engineering.
France - clothing/art/musical history. The role these play in national power: zlich
Japan - robotics/ electrical engineering
USA - technological innovation Probably going to slow down if the reverse brain drain continues. Let's hope not.
UK - military history / cars / shipping Disagree on all three counts. Cars, again due to tradition, but I don't see a bunch of UK made cars roaming the streets in any other country except the UK.
Italy - cars Only the fancy cars. Those aren't the ones that carry the day. Oh yeah they have FIAT, but that's hardly one of the biggest makers in the world.
Spain - military history / shipping History isn't so important. Not much of a shipping powerhouse anymore.

on and on and on......... That list took me 2 minutes.

China - ?????

The Chinese have started making cars and with experience they'll get better at it, just like everything else they have made. The quality of made in China goods have gone up, and so have prices incidentally. A lot of manufacturing is starting to shift towards Southeast Asia and also South Asia.
 
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The all mighty China makes me giggle. Peasant farmers/toothbrush/toy/dog collar makers by day. All seeing world manipulators by night. Yes the growth of thier state controlled economy is impressive. You have .00001% of the population making the decisions to make it happen. The rest are merely the tools to power it.


I feel sorry that you are blind to the outside world and you are self-obsessed of what you think is true. You want to know where China's orginalities are? Actually the world is enjoying the inventions that Chinese made thousand year ago. It's true that China has been left back for years but we are now cathing up.

Don't be ironic. China's developing in a way that at present seems suit well. Do you think China would be better in a western way? I don't think so. China has a 5000 year history which I think you can't even imagine. Such a long history has endowed the country characters that are quite different from others and Chinese are trying their best to have a better life. They are well aware of their advantages and disadvantages.
 
I think you missed the point on my list 13th but it could had been worded better. Those were things that came to mind instantly while typing out the countries. I probably should had said "what they have been known for". The things you listed I still do not see as being exceptional. You compaired the USA to those aspects but the mechanics behind those proccesses is what made the USA exceptional. I see those processes as being the blind loyal following flock, minus the weight of various aspects that come with them. Extremely 1 demensional. To me, it all still comes down to the surpreme elite in China. They call the shots. They are what is making China what it is, not the Chinese as a race.

You said I should understand because I am a soldier. I am taught to think on my feet at all times. Orders are passed down and they are completed but they are never explained how to accomplish. That revolves solely on me to figure out. If my leader goes down I am now the new leader. I do not think that is how China works.

http://www.nikdaum.com/news/2009/06/building.html

No need for a CNN or BBC article, its plastered all over the web. This building is what comes to mind when I think of China. This is so unthinkable to someone of the Western world. Clever and determined? I am supposed to be afraid of this? Do your thing and come back in 20 years and post this thread again.
 
The PRC (People's Republic of China) cannot win a military fight with the United States. The People's Navy is weak and even if the United States loses its Pacific Fleet the USAF can easily blow the enemy transports to pieces as they approach the shores. The only dream the PRC has of ever besting the USA is economically right now as the USN rules the waves.
 
Code Scarlet. I concur with your assessment. The Chinese did some studies many years ago and they determined the best way to fight us is not militarily but economically. Unfortunately, a lot of our own misdoings like NAFTA and the WTO which resulted in our industry moving overseas and us becoming a consumer nation as opposed to a producer nation has only worked against our own interest. Opening our borders like the Europeans did with the European Union will further plunge our nation to Third World Status. I weep for the America I grew up in and loved as a child and fear for our offspring's future.
 
Alright let's take a look...

I think you missed the point on my list 13th but it could had been worded better. Those were things that came to mind instantly while typing out the countries. I probably should had said "what they have been known for".
Ok, I won't disagree with you here but these "known for"s take a lot of time to form and quite commonly find themselves outdated. e.g. South Korea was known for making cheap shoes and some people who were adults in the 80's might still think so, but again, old information. Hong Kong was notorious for pollution. In the minds of those who visited in the 80's but haven't been there lately, they'll still associate Hong Kong with pollution. I was just there and I can confirm that is very old information. So "known for" doesn't hold too much value, in a way they are a country's stereotype... sometimes accurate, sometimes not so accurate.
The things you listed I still do not see as being exceptional. You compaired the USA to those aspects but the mechanics behind those proccesses is what made the USA exceptional. I see those processes as being the blind loyal following flock, minus the weight of various aspects that come with them. Extremely 1 demensional. To me, it all still comes down to the surpreme elite in China. They call the shots. They are what is making China what it is, not the Chinese as a race.
The relationship between the populace and the governance is not that simple. Most people outside think that the Chinese people simply follow like sheep but that is not the case. With the internet, their views are being heard more and more and the government has to perform delicate juggling acts between what they feel is right for their country and what their people want.

You said I should understand because I am a soldier. I am taught to think on my feet at all times. Orders are passed down and they are completed but they are never explained how to accomplish. That revolves solely on me to figure out. If my leader goes down I am now the new leader. I do not think that is how China works.
That is how China is beginning to work though it depends on the job (no room for creativity if you just push a button in an assembly line no matter where you are). The boss will show up and tell them what to do but it's up to the individual to figure it out. Hell, even in places as "collective" as South Korea it's how it's done. Tasks are carried out against the book on a pretty regular basis because they figure out much faster and efficient ways to do it. In fact you'll be surprised that in Korea (and I suspect very much China as well) the higher up a person goes, the less work they actually do (though responsibility is a different story) because they just give tasks to their subordinates and they'll figure it out. In America, even when I go to a shop and there's a problem, the cashier or teller will ask for the supervisor every time they get stuck with a problem. In at least the East Asian countries, they just figure it out on the spot.
Actually I have this guy who's been running his own shop in several countries for 30 or 40 years who actually figures that this might be a good thing - that the leaders of a group be extremely smart and capable and the followers be dumb as a rusted doornail. He says having really smart subordinates can be a pain in the ass.
In my experience, a process that will take two minutes in America takes about forty seconds or so in say South Korea or Hong Kong. Haven't had to pull money out of a bank in China but if they're not at this level in the big cities, I suspect they won't be too far behind. After all, they have a great teacher in the form of Hong Kong.
The reason why this happens is not just cultural but because of education. I'm not talking about the educated elite, but the education level of the average individual in that work pool.

http://www.nikdaum.com/news/2009/06/building.html

No need for a CNN or BBC article, its plastered all over the web. This building is what comes to mind when I think of China. This is so unthinkable to someone of the Western world. Clever and determined? I am supposed to be afraid of this? Do your thing and come back in 20 years and post this thread again.
China's modern history is very short. I remember South Korea had this same problem years ago when a few bridges collapsed or were declared unsafe. No problems anymore and South Korean firms have been building infrastructure in Southeast Asia for well over a decade and also in the Middle East though I don't know when the recent construction contracts were first signed. They'll learn and they'll get it right.
Do your thing and come back in 20 years and post this thread again.

My post is simply a warning of why we shouldn't d1ck around.
There are many countries that were in the similar situation as China that managed to do very well for themselves, their national power largely limited by their limited size and relatively small population. If China is able to pull off what Japan and Korea did our grand kids will be learning Chinese as their international language.
 
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