Yamato's Sister




 
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September 3rd, 2011  
Yossarian
 
 

Topic: Yamato's Sister


I know that currently the location of the wreck of the Yamato's almost identical sister Musashi is not known, or at least found.

But considering the same state of her sister, sunk by similar means of intense air attack with both bombs machine gun strafing runs, and torpedos below the water line, after 17 confirmed bomb hits, and 19 confirmed torpedo hits, how do you folks here in the Milforum community here think she fared on her trip to the bottom?

The reason I ask is because I don't know or have credible information to know if the Musashi's ammuntion magazines exploded on her way down or not.

And since there is not even a sonar scan avaible of her resting on the bottom it is hard to know her true condition. But does anyone here think she is relativly intact? Or like her Ill Fated Sister, a product of the changing times, and the end of an era when the battlship ruled the seas?

Also have there been any privately funded expedition to find her, at the bottom of Leyte Gulf (it is where she sank I belive, or was at least attacked). Also lastly, does the U.S. Navy have any estimates on the location of where she went down , and maybe a clue on her final resting place, as well as the conditons of the ocean floor in that area.

Another question about the seabed in the Leyte Gulf Area, is it full of underwater mountain ranges? There fore extending the Musashi's violent end further as she may have slid in complete darkness down a mountain or volcano bank thousands of feet under water to her final resting place, just like the Bismark's final journey over 15,000 feet down? (A true testimate to the Bismark and Tirpitz's builders as she is amazingly intact after sliding 2/3 rds of a mile down a mountain side in complete darkness).


Some mysteries such as this really spark and ingnite the imagination. I hope one day, she is found, not disturbed but found and investigated like many other famous fighting ships of the World War's such as the HMS Hood and her ill fated Nemisis the Bismarck.

Question is, is she now a debris field like her sister? Or sitting maybe upright like other casualites of war and mostly intact, Like the U.S.S. Yorktown or HMHS Britannic now resting on her starboard side?

For seeing the final chapter of the Musashi's story frozen in time on the ocean bottom would be a sight to behold.
September 3rd, 2011  
George
 
Doubt if total darkness affects a sunken ship's slide down the side of a ridge.
September 4th, 2011  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by George
Doubt if total darkness affects a sunken ship's slide down the side of a ridge.

Imagination at play, I was using imagery there, and it does boggle the mind at bit.

Well now that the customary shooting of my imagination at play in the foot is out of the way.

What does anyone think about the vessel's condition and location on the Sea Floor?
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September 5th, 2011  
mmarsh
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
Imagination at play, I was using imagery there, and it does boggle the mind at bit.

Well now that the customary shooting of my imagination at play in the foot is out of the way.

What does anyone think about the vessel's condition and location on the Sea Floor?
Impossible to say since it has never been found. However it would depend on both its position and the depth at which it sank.

I don't think her ammo would have exploded as the incoming water would have quickly extinguished the flames, before it reached her ammunition supply however it is very possible her boilers exploded (steam explosion -cold seawater hitting the boilers)) if the engineers didn't have time to cool them down before she made her plunge.

This is in fact what doomed the LUSITANIA (the torpedo only did minor damage, and although it was carrying ammo, the ammo didn't explode)

Generall
September 5th, 2011  
Yossarian
 
 
Similar to what have may caused the devasting explosion within the HMHS Britannic, it has been theorized that on that sinking as well, the proposed mine only cause minor damage compared to the theorized boiler explosion after which comprimised her improved saftey measures as compared to her ill fated sister which sank in peace time.

Ships back then were definatlely vunerable to such explosions, which could have enough force to comprise any anti flooding bulkheads onboard, if they were not already heavily damaged via enemy fire, at which any fires below deck could have been in isolated airpockets and the ammunition magiznes could have denoted, under a shallow level of water. Meaning close to the surface, but like you stated it is very unlikely since in a large opening created by bombs and torpedos would have quickly filled with sea water putting out any remaining fires. And reports of explosions heard on her way down, may have been exagerated a bit for the newsreels.

Lastly depth, and angle of the striken ship would play a major part in her current condition. On her descent to the bottom, if she capsized you can bet money her turrets, held by gravity if they were not already pentrated would fall free of the gunmounts, and thus be scattered in a debris field on the floor.

The then sinking wreck, if not comprised critically would then depending on angle of descent would pick up speed on it's way to the bottom, as the immense hydraulic pressue drove the remaining air pockets out of the ship, large amounts of debris, and interior funishing and hatch covers may have been blown out through any opening on the hull, parts of the super structure would have been undoubly torn away due to the intense forces washing over her decks on the way down, if she righted her self on her way down, the super structure, such as the gunnery tower, radio and communications array would have been torn complely off and most likely lay eslewhere on the ocean bottom.

If she was not completely comprimised, her hull may still be relativley intact although damaged from the impact no doubt, if she is broken in two, her final state may be very similar to that of the Ill Fated Hood and a huge mess on the ocean floor, covering dozens of miles on the muddy bottom.

Only time will tell I suppose, I will admit, I hope she is found, not disturbed and picked for plunder, for she is a war grave, and hopfully her depth would exclude her from divers apart from submersibles, there by insuring her eternal rest.
September 14th, 2011  
namvet
 
 
I heard about the expedition to find her. but the Philippine gov nixed it. citing to much danger of ammo expoding.
April 19th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
I hate to drag out a beaten cat, but I found it interesting that apranently a French Oceanograhpy ship using a towed sonar mapping device detected a large "man made mass" roughly near were the U.S. claims the Musashi was sunk in the Visayan Sea area.

What is familiar about these circumstances is that this is how most shipwrecks are found in the past 20 years it seems, as blips on bottom scanning equiptment.

No dive was attempted as wreck exploring was not the reason the Researchers were out there.

Just food for thought.

As for the ammunition concerns, upon researching Musashi's twin sister in her state, various shell and ordance litter her resting place, yet explorers have combed her remains for documentation and retrieval of artifacts for the Yamato's various muesum exhibits.

I suppose it all comes down to what happend on the Musashi's ammunition storage compartments and mixing of charges propellants, and shells as they rattled around the inside of the ship as she went down.

Also even where exactly they were stored and her interior ammuntion bulkheads remain a mystery as almost all prints of both her and her sister were lost with history.
April 20th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian


For seeing the final chapter of the Musashi's story frozen in time on the ocean bottom would be a sight to behold.
Interesting.
April 23rd, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
I hate to drag out a beaten cat, but I found it interesting that apranently a French Oceanograhpy ship using a towed sonar mapping device detected a large "man made mass" roughly near were the U.S. claims the Musashi was sunk in the Visayan Sea area.

What is familiar about these circumstances is that this is how most shipwrecks are found in the past 20 years it seems, as blips on bottom scanning equiptment.

No dive was attempted as wreck exploring was not the reason the Researchers were out there.

Just food for thought.

As for the ammunition concerns, upon researching Musashi's twin sister in her state, various shell and ordance litter her resting place, yet explorers have combed her remains for documentation and retrieval of artifacts for the Yamato's various muesum exhibits.

I suppose it all comes down to what happend on the Musashi's ammunition storage compartments and mixing of charges propellants, and shells as they rattled around the inside of the ship as she went down.

Also even where exactly they were stored and her interior ammuntion bulkheads remain a mystery as almost all prints of both her and her sister were lost with history.
There is also the small issue of the two explosions reported as the ship went down which could indicate the magazines went up so there may be very little of the ship left intact.
April 23rd, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
There is also the small issue of the two explosions reported as the ship went down which could indicate the magazines went up so there may be very little of the ship left intact.

May have another scenario like the Hood, she was utterly scattered when she went down.

By Musashi's sister also had an enormous internal explosion, however only her midsection is utterly gone, her bow and stern lie right new to each other rather intact.

And considering the condition of the Arizonia (although I understand she sank in very shallow water). A detonating magazine may not have dissasembled the ship entirely.

Of course I may be completly wrong, I suppose the only way to be for sure is to wait until the ship is photographed and throughly scanned.
 


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