WWII's Top Mistakes-USSR - Page 7




 
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October 27th, 2007  
Kunikov
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger
Look.

Listing multiple sources is all very well. However, if you're unable to accept that a) there are few definitive answers when it comes to a subject as vast as the Eastern Front and b) just because someone has a different opinion to yours that it can also be just as valid.

It's all very well being able to quote hundreds of sources, but if you can't interpret them correctly what use are they? I'm not saying that you are misinterpreting them per se, just that you seem unable to see the value of other sensible opinions. If you are unwilling to enter into debate, why the hell are you even bothering to post on this forum? To show off your knowledge? It's refreshing that you're attempting to balance the overwhelming German bias in terms of reporting and perception, but acting in the manner you are doing is unraveling any sympathy you might get for your stance.

Put it this way my man. There are greater men who know more than you and me and the rest of this forum combined who are still humble enough to know that they can still learn from others. No-one has all the answers, certainly not me and definitely not you. How about you stop acting like you do? If your profile is correct you are 24 years of age. How the hell can you have all the answers at 24?

I give Monty, God of Thunder and everyone else more respect than you because they don't claim to be all-knowing and are willing to enter into debate. You might be more knowledgeable but I give you no respect because of the way you act. I suspect you won't give a **** but neither do I mate.
You're making quite a few assumptions in regards to me. I have not claimed how much I know, what I know, etc. Your respect, given or not given, means nothing to me as you mean nothing to me. I don't have any respect for anyone here, rather I'll respect what they've written as either something worth reading or the garbage, that in most instances, it is. Once again, you seem to have a problem of addressing me as the person rather than my arguments, as few of them as there might be. If you'd like to pick up the slack of another poster, go right ahead, I'll quote the last post and my response for you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
Saying that Stalin "wasn't giving all the orders" is ridiculous. He had overwhelming authority to make happen whatever he saw fit.
Then you have a skewed view of Stalin and his reign in the Soviet Union.

Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
What he did not do was establish sufficiently strong defensive preparations along the German Border.
The border had moved, the old defensive line, dubbed the "Stalin Line" was taken apart and the new defensive line was in the midst of being built when the Germans attacked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
To the other point, did Stalin know all in advance? No. Never said that. But he had more than enough cause to greatly strengthen his border forces and defenses just to be on the safe side.
He was doing just that, you seem to also lack an understanding of what was going on within the Soviet Union before the war began.

Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
He disregarded that in the invasions of Poland and France. Why change what seems to be working just fine? Germany was outnumbered in every category going into France, yet they were victorious in less than 40 days.
There is no comparison between the two and the Soviet Union, this is also why Blitzkrieg ideas did not work in the Soviet Union.

Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
The invasion of the Soviet Union did not fail because of lopsided numbers. Barbarossa was brilliantly successful on every level ... until the Russian Winter kicked in.
You must be joking. Do you know the goals for Barbarossa? Look them up, then show me how it was 'brilliantly successful on every level.' The winter is what facilitated the launching of operation Typhoon, your knowledge of the Eastern Front is severely lacking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
The problem was the same as that encountered by Napoleon: Russia is just too big, too cold and to far from your supply lines. The three great Russian generals were at their finest in 1941: General Snow, General Mud and General Distance.
If you want to show off your ignorance, you're doing an excellent job. Please, list the casualties suffered by the Wehrmacht due to the 'snow', 'mud', and 'distance', then list those inflicted by the Red Army. I find it hard to believe that an armed force, considered by many to have been the greatest of their time, would be destroyed by 'winter', 'mud' and 'distance.' If that is the case, then they are an entirely over-rated opponent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
If someone starts a pissing contest with you (or you think that's what's happening) then any intelligent person comes prepared to fight. Stalin did not.
Your comparisons have no context.

Now, where am I wrong? What would you like evidence for? What would you like me to put into context or interpret for you?
October 28th, 2007  
Doppleganger
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunikov
You're making quite a few assumptions in regards to me.
I'm making the assumption that you're not humble or self-effacing based on your posts thus far. You have an arrogance that is simply not deserved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunikov
I have not claimed how much I know, what I know, etc.
However, you claim everyone else either knows nothing, is ignorant or posts garbage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunikov
Your respect, given or not given, means nothing to me as you mean nothing to me. I don't have any respect for anyone here, rather I'll respect what they've written as either something worth reading or the garbage, that in most instances, it is.
I suspected as such but I won't lose any sleep over it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunikov
Once again, you seem to have a problem of addressing me as the person rather than my arguments, as few of them as there might be.
It's not a problem as far as I see it. I can't separate you the person from your arguments because of the way you type - your arrogance overrides any sensible arguments you might make, I agree with much of what you say, but your condescending, superior tone and your unwillingness to enter into debate spoil any progress you might have made.
October 28th, 2007  
Kunikov
 
If you have no problem with any of what I've written above in regards to actual historical discussions, then we can move on.
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October 28th, 2007  
LeEnfield
 
 
Kuniko.................If as you say that the warnings of the German attack were heeded then why did the Germans wipe out the Russian Air force on the ground. The Russian Aircraft had not been dispersed but where sitting there like clay pigeons waiting to be shot up.
October 28th, 2007  
Del Boy
 
[quote=Kunikov;373151]

"Please, list the casualties suffered by the Wehrmacht due to the 'snow', 'mud', and 'distance', then list those inflicted by the Red Army. I find it hard to believe that an armed force, considered by many to have been the greatest of their time, would be destroyed by 'winter', 'mud' and 'distance.' If that is the case, then they are an entirely over-rated opponent." quote


Precisely.
October 28th, 2007  
Kunikov
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
Kuniko.................If as you say that the warnings of the German attack were heeded then why did the Germans wipe out the Russian Air force on the ground. The Russian Aircraft had not been dispersed but where sitting there like clay pigeons waiting to be shot up.
In some places they were destroyed, in others less so, like in the south where precautions were taken. Don't be so general. I also don't remember saying they were 'heeded', specifically. I said some precautions were taken by Stalin and the Red Army due to the growing nature of an eventual threat from Hitler. The warnings were contradictory and in many instances completely wrong.
October 29th, 2007  
Kunikov
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
With the warning that Stalin received he could have put his forces on an alert and dispersed his aircraft around the country, but instead he chose to do nothing and got hammered for it. When Churchill informed Stalin about the forthcoming attack on Russia he did not ask Russia to join in the fight at that time, but just sent the information as a warning
Only because this is part of my research at the moment, here is what Golikov, head of military intelligence, wrote on March 20, 1941, to the People's Committee of Defense, Central Committee of the Party, etc, in a report in regards to the intelligence coming in: "The majority of the information coming in which talks about war with the USSR in the spring of 1941 is from Anglo-American sources, whose job it is at the moment, is apparently to worsen relations between the USSR and Germany."

"Operatziya'Ramzai'" by Gavrilov and Gorbunov pg.325.
October 29th, 2007  
LeEnfield
 
 
I think in Russia at this time there were a lot of people tying to cover there butts after the German attack. Lets face it mistakes were not tolerated by Stalin
October 29th, 2007  
Del Boy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
I think in Russia at this time there were a lot of people tying to cover there butts after the German attack. Lets face it mistakes were not tolerated by Stalin

Yes, Kunikov's last point of his last post establishes your take on this issue, Lee Enfield. And how wrong could they be?
October 29th, 2007  
Kunikov
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
I think in Russia at this time there were a lot of people tying to cover there butts after the German attack. Lets face it mistakes were not tolerated by Stalin
If you are speaking of my last post the report Golikov submitted was in March of 1941, before the German attack. If you are talking about something else, please, be more specific.