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I have worked with the UN a couple of times (Lebanon and Macedonia), but I do not have any hard feelings to your coment Cryhavoc...

But I wouldn't go as far as calling them weak and pointless...
UN has done a lot of good things around the world (humanitarian work), and their Force is PeaceKeepers, not fighting soldiers..
And one of the reasons why some calls UN weak and pointless is lack of support from some of it's member countries.....

But I'm fairly neutral to EU...
(we are not members, yet.......)

Speaking as an european... spanish withdrawal's just so coward and definitely proves how different the two shores of the ocean are: fear and lack of balls, books, snobism, intellectuals, philosophers, on the eastern shore. Saving the world from catastrophe on the western one.

Keep it civil, ItalianGuy.

Originally Posted by ItalianGuy4US

Speaking as an european... spanish withdrawal's just so coward and definitely proves how different the two shores of the ocean are: fear and lack of balls, books, snobism, intellectuals, philosophers, on the eastern shore. Saving the world from catastrophe on the western one.

You do have to put in to consideration that the elected party that ware sitting there before dug their own grave by over-riding a wote against sending troops. Of course the people would wote on an other partiy then a party that stoped listening to them
I think it would have happened even if spanish soldiers or the terror action would not have happened

Same thing happened here in sweden on the wote of either driving on the left side or the right, the Swedes woted on left, the goverment changed it to the right side They didnt last for long, although they ware realected

I doubt this has anything to do with cowardness, more grunge and discomfart with the sitting party

Originally Posted by AlexKall

I doubt this has anything to do with cowardness, more grunge and discomfart with the sitting party

I think you are right it was a political move. However it sill looks like they a bowing to terrorists. I feel over all it was a bad move, I think it will come back to bit them in the butt. [/speculation]

I'm sorry if i sounded a bit rude.

I'm not sure I got all of what AlexKall said but it's just that I believe that the european public opinion is naive and selfish: europe itself does not know what the word responsibility is all about to the extent that they take democracy for granted, make it fashionable by covering it with the peace flags all over, and then believing that's enough for freedom to last.
I mean democracy should be armed, in order to survive, that's just the point I guess.

ain't it just the real meaning of your Sowell's quote, by the way ? Spanish chose to not defend their civilization, they're bowing to terror in miserable hope that it will not hurt them again. Same hope the British and French had, in Munich, when they sacrificed Poland and Czechoslovakia to Mr Moustache.
And now here you have europe teaching what should be done... makes me laugh.

Originally Posted by ItalianGuy4US

ain't it just the real meaning of your Sowell's quote, by the way ? Spanish chose to not defend their civilization, they're bowing to terror in miserable hope that it will not hurt them again. Same hope the British and French had, in Munich, when they sacrificed Poland and Czechoslovakia to Mr Moustache.
And now here you have europe teaching what should be done... makes me laugh.

OMG saddam wasent a thereat to anyone no EVEN to USA.

OMG saddam wasent a thereat to anyone no EVEN to USA.

He wasn't? What about his own people?

In reference to the post you quoted from Italianguy, I believe his comment is more geared towards recent events (Post-Hussein) concerning the resolve of nations in the face of terrorisim.