Why did Germany win so much in WW2? - Page 2




 
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May 29th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I am not sure about that, had the Z-Plan been completed I think the Kriegsmarine would have been able to compete with the Royal Navy certainly in the North Sea and probably the Atlantic.

For all of the Royal Navies strength it should be remembered that much of it was spread around the world defending an empire and not focused around the UK.

I believe if the German Army and Navy had codevloped amphibious excercises to the letter in the 1930's like the U.S. during peacetime without the strains of war.

And started to put into place the ground work and equippment to really get serious about operation Sea Lion, then the Empire the U.K. was defending would have taken second proity and the majority of the Royal Navy would have steamed homeward at the first hint of a serious German attempt to move boots onto British Home Soil.

Another one of Hitler's fallacies, the 1930's could have been a great time to train and arm for such a daunting undertaking.

Instead he opted for a Soviet Fiasco.
May 29th, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
There was no Soviet fiasco, I really struggle to understand why people think Germany could have avoided war with Russia, the whole focus of Hitler's Reich development plans were the acquisition of living space in the East.

You don't have to believe me go read Mien Kampf, volume 2, Chapter 14: Eastern Orientation or Eastern Policy.
May 29th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
There was no Soviet fiasco, I really struggle to understand why people think Germany could have avoided war with Russia, the whole focus of Hitler's Reich development plans were the acquisition of living space in the East.

You don't have to believe me go read Mien Kampf, volume 2, Chapter 14: Eastern Orientation or Eastern Policy.
I understand Hitler's obsession with Eastern Europe, but honestly it was indeed one of hist most costly endevours and back fired so disasterously that within 5 years the Soviet Flag and almost a million enemy troops were flooding into Berlin.

I honestly believe Hitler could have if not won against the Western Allied Powers at least pushed them out of the way for a few years, he would have had to brown nose Stalin to a riduculous degree. But he could have if not maybe occupied his western adversaries, knocked them out of the war in terms of major military movements and counter operations.

Then he could have found a way to further his goals. My opinion is honestly the first moment he thought he would defeat the Soviet Union via the manner he tried is the begining of the end of his 1,000 Riech.
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May 29th, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
But German did achieve all it could have achieved against the Western powers it drove them from the continent given that there was no way Operation Sealion could have succeeded there was no where else to go in the West.

Also what gives you the impression that Russia would not have attacked first had they stuck with the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, by 1943-44 the Red Army was going to a formidable array of options available to it and had already tried invading Poland and Finland in previous years so Stalin was just as expansionist.
May 29th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
But German did achieve all it could have achieved against the Western powers it drove them from the continent given that there was no way Operation Sealion could have succeeded there was no where else to go in the West.

Also what gives you the impression that Russia would not have attacked first had they stuck with the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, by 1943-44 the Red Army was going to a formidable array of options available to it and had already tried invading Poland and Finland in previous years so Stalin was just as expansionist.

Sea Lion would have never succeed I agree, it would have the Staligrad of the West, except with a country not a city. Hitler would be forced to withdraw.

However, if the Brits could cross the Channel again anytime soon, is up to question.

What Hitler could have done and should have done, is prepare for the devastating war the Soviets would have unleashed.

Better yet, not go to war with the Western Allies, Fortify after walking into Austria and getting ready for a war hopefully without Western intervention on behalf of the Soviets.

Which if the Soviets attacked a non expanding Germany, Western opinions of the Nazis may have not be so dreaded at that point in time. And the Soviets as the "agressors".

Remeber, as screwed up todays generations may see today, this was on newstands everywhere.

May 29th, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
I think I raised that question in the "Why did Germany lose WW2" thread quite a while ago, had Germany convinced Russia to attack Poland first it would have negated Britain and Frances defence pact with Poland and essentially forced the West into a war with Russia.

The result of this could have been rather amusing with the Germans receiving lend lease aid and having almost free hand in the East at least in the short term.
May 29th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I think I raised that question in the "Why did Germany lose WW2" thread quite a while ago, had Germany convinced Russia to attack Poland first it would have negated Britain and Frances defence pact with Poland and essentially forced the West into a war with Russia.

The result of this could have been rather amusing with the Germans receiving lend lease aid and having almost free hand in the East at least in the short term.

I honestly also believe that if the Nazis never came to power war would have still ocurred there as the Soviets as the bad guy, in a way Western Europe in a twisted sense have Germany to thank for paying the ulitmate price for providing a cushion between themselves and the Soviet expansion.

Which in historical terms would become cruicial in terms of defending Western Europe in a third World War.
May 29th, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
Lets not get carried away, to say that you would have to over look the enormous suffering and destruction that Nazi Germany caused and that we are still paying for today in the Middle East.

I have no doubt that had we let Hitler go East with our blessings a couple of years later he would have moved West.
May 29th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Lets not get carried away, to say that you would have to over look the enormous suffering and destruction that Nazi Germany caused and that we are still paying for today in the Middle East.

I have no doubt that had we let Hitler go East with our blessings a couple of years later he would have moved West.

True, but I was looking at this as a "still going to be bad" scenario, of what could have happened, I tried to judge based of his behavioral pattern.

Honestly , I think the whole region of Europe was inching close to some sort of large armed conflict, how big or how many player it would have included are all circumstance.

How the Nazis would have played a role is as well.

This can get easily spun into a myraid of threads and topics so I will stop while I am ahead before I lead this to far astray.
May 29th, 2012  
George
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I also think it would have taken until at least 1946 to get the navy anywhere near the strength it needed to be in order to have limited parity with the Royal Navy.
Think the Navy was expecting/planning for War in '47-8 start time, not '39. Would have had an interesting fleet by then.
 


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