What you think...

DUDE.... Chicks don't dig commandos. Chicks dig Tankers. Seriously.

Plus, there's the OLD tanker motto: "Why carry your weapons system into battle, when your weapons system can carry YOU?"

As for the whole beret thing... Tankers had the Black Beret WAY before the Rangers or anyone else had it. Look it up.
 
:lol: It's amazing we can focus on fighting the enemy every once in awhile.

Your training began early then.
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Yes Sir, and ever since I became a Cay-dot, every one of them near about have been trying to make me do some D&C for them when they catch me on a date. Senior NCOs got a mean streak a mile wide in them. :lol:
 
Go for it. You'll always wonder "What if?" if you don't. And if you want to be a GOOD officer, enlist first. I never trusted any officer that hadn't done time as an enlisted man. How can someone tell me what to do if he isn't willing to try it? If you plan on making the army a career, you'd better go combat arms, and if the recruiter tries to push you into some support position, get up, walk out, and wait until they give you what YOU want.
 
Jamoni said:
I never trusted any officer that hadn't done time as an enlisted man. How can someone tell me what to do if he isn't willing to try it?
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This attitude really kind of chaps my ass, if you'll pardon the expression. Although I have NEVER claimed to know more than any serviceman, enlisted or commissioned (or warrented :lol: ), I have no doubt that even though I am EARNING my commission through ROTC and therefore will not spend any time on the enlisted side, I will be no less worthy of the trust and respect of my men than a prior service or OCS 2nd Lieutenant will be, because I am going to earn that trust and respect.

If you are considering going the ROTC, UMJC, or Academy course, Greenie, do not let that hold you back. No matter which route you take, and this includes being a career enlisted man, nobody will respect you unless you are worthy of it. A retired 11B CSM in my Sheriff's Posse told me that my goal should always be for my men to be saluting me the man rather than me the uniform. Just give it your all and take the responsibilities you are given as seriously as they should be, and nothing is a more serious responsibility than holding the lives of other men in your hands.
 
Redneck, NO ONE knows more than a Warrant Officer, just ask them! :D
Sorry if my attitude chaps your ass, but you can't judge a man til you've walked a mile in his boots... nor can you lead him till you've been where he's been. Perhaps I should say I've never trusted a LIEUTENANT that wasn't prior service, as specialists have a way of "maturing" a butterbar very quickly :twisted:
One LT. thought he was hot shit, and could poke me in the chest when speaking to me. Ever been duct taped in a portapotty with homemade CS? Same guy spent two days blind cause he wouldn't take orders from a specialist... when i told him not to stare directly at an arc welder. :roll:
I guess i just mean if you become an officer, you'd better remember who guards you when you sleep. Remember who delivers your chow. Remember that without you things would keep working, but without soldiers, an officer is nothing. And if you have to put your ass on the line to see your boys get what they need, you better do it, or you ain't leading shit.
 
You're making some very broad statements there Jamoni.

When I was enlisted, I met and served with many 2nd Lts who were outstanding leaders, even if inexperienced. I sure respected them, so did others. Did I see some bad or marginal 2nd Lts? Sure I did, but they were in the minority.

When I became an officer after having been an NCO, I had no trouble being respected by my men. Neither did my peers, most of whom were not former enlisted men.

Get rid of this idea that there is this big "hatred or disrespect" thing among officers and enlisted. Respect must be earned, by both sides of the equation.

It seems as if there was a lack of discipline with yourself, the enlisted and the officers within your unit. The 10% rule always applies, with officers AND enlisted.
 
Rndersafe, my ideas are my own, and they are very hard won, thank you very much. I will get rid of the ones that I choose to.
I guess i just mean if you become an officer, you'd better remember who guards you when you sleep. Remember who delivers your chow. Remember that without you things would keep working, but without soldiers, an officer is nothing. And if you have to put your ass on the line to see your boys get what they need, you better do it, or you ain't leading shit.
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I stand by these words. I'm not saying a ROTC officer can't be a good officer, I just think they need to accept their limitations and accept the abilities of their men.
Perhaps you are right, in that there was a lack of discipline in my unit. Whose responsibility is that? MY section ran like a clock. PERIOD. We had each others back, we executed our missions, we did our duty.
Respect must be earned, by both sides of the equation.
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This is EXACTLY my point.
Let's not take this wrong. I didn't hate officers. I did as I was told. And only under EXTREME circumstances would I do something like I described above. I am saying that an officer with prior service has BEEN where I was, had done what he was asking me to do, and knew full well what I could or could not do. He would respect the job I had to do because he had done it. A ROTC cadet HAS earned his commision, but has NOT YET SHARED HARDSHIPS WITH HIS MEN. Until he does, he's questionable. If anyone feels this is unreasonable, please feel free to reply.
Also, I will take back my statement that an Officer must be enlisted first to be a good officer. I can see how this is misleading, disrespectful, and it detracts from my actual point. My apologies.
 
Jamoni, I think I understand what you're saying. If you're saying that a newbie butter bar has something to prove in the eyes of the men then I can grant you that. I would also say the same thing about a green NCO. Anyone who comes into a leadership position for the first time is in the same boat. I've never held a leadership position of any kind where that did not apply. You have to prove yourself to those you are leading and to those above you. A prior-service type might be looked at a little differently than someone fresh out of school but that only carries so far. The first leadership position is always the hardest because of this.
I am going to have to side with RndrSafe on his comment that there are good and bad O1s no matter where they come from. The same applies to E5s in my opinion. In the case of officers, I think much of the respect issue is settled when an officer demonstrates a genuine interest in what his unit's job is and that his current position is not just a stop on his way to promotion (even if it always is just a stop by definition). He needs to demonstrate an interest in and respect for how everyone in the unit does his job, from the newest E1 to his Plt. Sgt. I think that goes a long way toward earning respect.
BTW, if you were in my unit and I got wind of anything like that duct tape incident, I would have not tolerated it. You'd likely have found yourself earning less money and in some other unit at the very least. That's just the way I did things in my unit.
 
Top, you make a great point. I'm in ROTC, gonna get my commission in 2 years. The way I view it is that all I am is a private with more schooling. You'd better believe that I have a lot to prove to my men. The way I view it is listen to your men, treat them like your family, and they'll respect you. Don't buddy f*** your fellow comrades and you'll do fine. Hell I know when I get to my first unit, the SFC and I are gonna have a loonnnnnggg talk on how the unit operates. I'm the new guy there, and I need to learn how things work. I was told this one great piece of advice: Changing things is not always leadership. Sometimes, not changing things is sometimes the leadership that is necessary.
 
Heck, DTop, I have a feeling that in YOUR unit it never would have come to that. I've got a pretty tough skin. If the guy hadn't laid hands on me and hid behind his brass, we wouldn't have had an issue. This guy repeatedly laid hands on me (pushing, shaking my shoulder when chewing me out, stuff like that) and I got absolutely no redress through channels. No one in my chain of command was willing to stand up for their men (this was during the drawdown), and in general we were left to fend for ourselves. Just picture this: all the privates in holes eating MRE's, all the officers eating hot chow 200 yds away. Need I say more? Once we got a strong captain and a few good NCOs in place, things shaped up a lot.
And, hey, if I'd gotten caught, I'd have paid for it. But I didn't. 8)
 
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