Watchdog blasts China's 'irresponsible' arms trade - Page 6




 
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June 16th, 2006  
Wing Nut
 
Wow this is a fun filled thread.

I will not pretend to even know the ins and outs of either America or China..

Form living in China I can see a few things though that may or may not be relevent.

China is big on making money at the moment. Who else would put in 12 hour days 7 days a week on their job, plus OT if not for making money. It's a difference in Culture. We in the west like our free time (at least the people I knew in britian did) so we keep our weekends free, have time for the family etc.. whether it is something that has developed all throughout their history or only in recent history I don't know. I do know that a lot of chinese will make money any way they can. even if it might not be in line with the law all the time.

For the most part, The head of the dragon doesn't know what the tail of the dragon is doing. let alone it's other limbs. Beijing has no real control over Guangzhou and other areas for example.

When it comes to business the chinese (and I do not mean this with disrespect) are the most cunning people I have met.. they can and will do just abotu anything to make the slightest bit of extra profit.

When we look at these things. It might be possible that although China is supplying other countries with arms, that Certian people in the government don't know about it... So much stuff here is done under the table.. So while people could be supplying all these weapons, the poor guy who sits in his office all day and has to confront UN etc.. through calling up, and checking paperwork will not find any evidence of this.


The other thing I have found is, through the media.. China and the west both put their own edge on things.

China will under tell the story to the world.

The west will over tell it.

a fair few things have happened since I have been here and I have always found this. becuase of this if say China says 2 people have died of some disease, and the west says 100 people have died. The actual number will probably be about 40-50...


One thing that I think is cuasing a big problem here is. China has this concept of face, which to be honest is screwing it up...

Firstly the west does have it in for communism, and it will latch onto any bit of bad news about commie countries it can to prove it's point about how bad it is.. China knows this.. so what China does is it (stupidly in my oppinion) tries to cover it up, so the bad news cannot get out and give China a Bad name.. and make China loose face. Unfortunatly becuase they cover it up, and they get found out about them covering it is only makes the situation a lot worse and it starts to snowball...



From living out here.. I can say that it is not as bad as it was made out to be when I lived in the west, although it is not all rainbows and Cheese cakes either. Some thing are just plan wrong... some other things are just culturally different and without an insight into that culture are uncomprehendable. The opposite is true too.


As for Taiwan.. well thats a whole different issue...



Wing Nut
June 16th, 2006  
filmmaker
 
 
Quote:
NOw it is peace time but when war time come the American made weapons will kill more people than even in the human history
it is a reality that China supplies weapons and trucks for the military, stuff that has been used to slaughter hundreds of thousands of civilians in Darfur,and CCP just let it happen without doing anything to stop. they just keep selling weapons to these cold blood murderers.

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I know that China did more help to the African guys than you the one who are rich and ironically your rich was based on the black slaves in the slave trading for west Europe and for the slave wokers in the south
we are taling about what happen right now. chinese goverment should stop selling weapons to war criminals. if the whole world stop selling weapon to these ****ing cold blood suckers,maybe less civilians will die.
I don't give shit about what reasons chinese company use to sell weapons. I only care these hundred- thousands innocent people in sudan who were coldly murdered by these warlords who are just customers of chinese weapons. but it is very unfortunate that in some people's minds, national pride is more important than the truth and human's life.
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know that China did more help to the African guys than you the one who are rich and ironically your rich was based on the black slaves in the slave trading for west Europe and for the slave wokers in the south America........Where is the moral for you ?Wher eis the justice for you ????????Do you know there suffer now and then ,but now you cares about their dignity and their welfare,why
sounds to me like if westen country can do bad things a couple centurys ago, why cann't china do some bad things right now.
June 16th, 2006  
yingying
 
filmmaker wrote
Quote:
it is a reality that China supplies weapons and trucks for the military, stuff that has been used to slaughter hundreds of thousands of civilians in Darfur,and CCP just let it happen without doing anything to stop. they just keep selling weapons to these cold blood murderers.

Boy,I think you have missed India in the list of American weapon costumers.America still sell weapons to India to promote the war between India and Pakistan. This is the reality.why do you mention this?And now the people in Iran are preparying to fight against the invaders,do you think this will case masscare of the civilians?This is the reality too.American weapons cases mnasscre of the civilians.

We all know that America was controlled by the big weapon companies.America need war to sell their weapons although most of the commen people in American do not like war but the bigest shareholders who takes about 60% of all the stockes of America and who are weapon companies are the ones who like wars.

So,let us judge in this logic,the most commen people in American do not like war,but they only takes about 30% of the whole stocks.And the biggest shareholders takes about 60% of the whole stocks,but unforyuantelly the 60% of the biggest shareholders are the weapon companies and their representives..Of cause we can come this conclusion easily,America is a country who need war and who like war although the most commen peple do not like war.Do you think they are the good standard of the justice? Of cause not.So,we may come to this conclusion that Ameirca is not good but evil in a sense,so do you believe the words by evil?So naïve ,boy.

The reason why they do not buy Amrican weapons is that the weapon made by American are too expensive and they can not affordd it.If they can afford the price of the American price ,American will also sell the weapons to them too.
But they can not afford the price,so they buy the weapons of China,while American can not get the little profit,the American feel bad and fell jealosus,so they criticize China help the murderer by selling them weapons.
We all know that American is a capatilist country.And the capitilist are all very greedy.Only the money and profit are in their eyes.They also want to sell the weapons to Sudan,but the Sudan people can not afford the expensive American weapons.
filmmaker wrote
Quote:
we are taling about what happen right now. chinese goverment should stop selling weapons to war criminals. if the whole world stop selling weapon to these ****ing cold blood suckers,maybe less civilians will die.
I don't give shit about what reasons chinese company use to sell weapons. I only care these hundred- thousands innocent people in sudan who were coldly murdered by these warlords who are just customers of chinese weapons. but it is very unfortunate that in some people's minds, national pride is more important than the true and human's life.

Quote:
sounds to me like if westen country can do bad things a couple centurys ago, why cann't china do some bad things right now.

Not the same as your words above,but I want you know that all countries can be wrong.And the improvement shold be yaken place,but I know that it needs time to change.Obviously you did not check my above post and especially the url I gave.
I know this is a English forum.It is very commen for me to face this.Infact I do not think youy are really from Fiji.because I think that people from that small and happy countries tends to be very happy and alll they concern is the life and the nature but not the dark side of human being such as war and killing and political tricks.Honestly speaking,people from big countries and old countries and who do much communicate with the neighbour countries are the same as you.May be you are American live in Fiji.
You have mentioned the word “blood suckers”.WE all know that the president of Libya is also a blood sucker.!!!!!!But your admiring country also regared him as the best friend.Can you tell me why the so called democratic-free-lightened-advanced country named America regard this blood sucker as its friend?????????If America can make friends with the rascal president who are really blood sucker ,China can also sell weapons to the blood suckers.But you should know that China is not the friend of the blood suckers but America is the friend of the real blood sucker.And China only selled weapons to them.
May be America is also a blood sucker countryu since they have the blood sucker friend.Do you think so?Hitler has the friend of Japan in 1940s.When judges a peple we should judge the peope’s friend,ok?

Justice can not be said, but justice should be done!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are not the jutice defender but only the bad news promoter and the solider of you own culture and you own country,pesonably I do not think you are from Fiji.If you are really from Fiji, I can understand why you have this standpoint.I know that the English official country can have the same information in their mind.
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June 16th, 2006  
bulldogg
 
 
Ying, you best check people's profiles before you call them "boy". Filmaker is older than you. Unless of course you meant it as a racial insult which is against the rules.
June 16th, 2006  
ASTRALdragon
 
 
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. At the very least, the US is doing a hell of a better job [than China] keeping American weapons out of the hands of those intent on doing harm upon others.
June 16th, 2006  
filmmaker
 
 
yin yin ,you are a funny guy. my nationality has nothing to with this topic we are talking about .btw, what do you know about fiji? people in fji are much more educated and intelligent than you can imagine.please don't underestimate people in small country by your assuming. what you try to tell me really doesn't make any sense. Because I said I just don't like the idea of selling chinese weapons to Africa warlord, so in you eyes I am just a naive boy who knows nothing about this world. ok, i have no problem with what you define me. after I read this article, my humble opinion is this time what chinese goverment did in sudan is wrong. chinese goverment should first admit selling weapon to African warlard is bad idea ,then do some adjustment of the policy of the weapon export instead of denying everything. it seems you really take evrerything personaly and feel upset when people mention some ccp's problem. it is not necessary to have sore feeling when you see some people discuss some chinese issues which are negative. you should not only be proud of china's achievements,but also have courage to face some flaws china has. but, I still insist it is wrong that China supplies weapons and trucks for the military, stuff that has been used to slaughter hundreds of thousands of civilians in Darfur,and CCP just let it happen without doing anything to stop. I am not American so I have no reasons to defend American blood sucker policy.
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The reason why they do not buy Amrican weapons is that the weapon made by American are too expensive and they can not affordd it.If they can afford the price of the American price ,American will also sell the weapons to them too
American congress and law will not allow American companys to sell weapons to countrys like Burma, North Korea, Iran and Sudan, Zimbabwe sudan in which their goverment have tremendous hunam right problems. I don't think any American weapon manufacturers have balls to disobey or against the law and regulations, unless they don't want any contracts from US military. no matter they have money or not, nobady in America will sell weapon to them. you have to understand sometimes money is not everyhting. for example, china has enough money to buy
everything, but why EU don't lift arms ban to sell weapons to china,why Isael cancelled the contract of AWACS system with PLA.

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So,let us judge in this logic,the most commen people in American do not like war,but they only takes about 30% of the whole stocks.And the biggest shareholders takes about 60% of the whole stocks,but unforyuantelly the 60% of the biggest shareholders are the weapon companies and their representives..Of cause we can come this conclusion easily,America is a country who need war and who like war although the most commen peple do not like war.Do you think they are the good standard of the justice? Of cause not.So,we may come to this conclusion that Ameirca is not good but evil in a sense,so do you believe the words by evil?So naïve ,boy.

first, American people in Amrica have nothing to do with what we are discussing in here. the real situation in states is more complicated than just you mentioned. the conclusion you made is nothing new to me. some american are bad ,some of them are good, and some of them are smart ,some of them are stupid,but WHO CARE! IN HERE we talking about it is a bad move for china to do bussiness with bad ass warlards in sudan. selling weapons to warlard in sudan not only hurt civilians in sudan, but also damaged chinese reputation in international society and give some china haters more excuses to bash china.


Quote:
If America can make friends with the rascal president who are really blood sucker ,China can also sell weapons to the blood suckers.But you should know that China is not the friend of the blood suckers but America is the friend of the real blood sucker.And China only selled weapons to them.
in my opinio,you are right,Ameica should not sell weapon to blood sucker lybya. but American wrong doing doesn't mean what China did in Sudan is right ,so I don't agree you said " if A.meica can sell, china also can sell". sorry dude! I just can not buy this kind of concept.

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I want you know that all countries can be wrong.And the improvement shold be yaken place,but I know that it needs time to change.Obviously you did not check my above post and especially the url I gave.
I didn't say china is not great ,and doesn't deserve my respect. I just insist China should not sell weapons cowards in sudan who prefer to kill unarmed civilians . that's all.

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It is very commen for me to face this.Infact I do not think youy are really from Fiji.because I think that people from that small and happy countries tends to be very happy and alll they concern is the life and the nature but not the dark side of human being such as war and killing and political tricks.Honestly speaking,people from big countries and old countries and who do much communicate with the neighbour countries are the same as you.May be you are American live in Fiji.
why did you tell me this? where I am from or living has nothing to do with this topic. btw, I don't give shit about USA, so stop assuming I am a American.

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Can you tell me why the so called democratic-free-lightened-advanced country named America regard this blood sucker as its friend????????
because America is not perfect baby, and making friend with blood sucker was another mistakes America made.
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May be America is also a blood sucker countryu since they have the blood sucker friend.Do you think so?Hitler has the friend of Japan in 1940s.When judges a peple we should judge the peope’s friend,ok?
dude! I DO NOT judge what kind of friend china should have!!!!!!!!!! I just say it is wrong for any countrys including china to sell weapons to some crazy wardlards in sudan.

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Justice can not be said, but justice should be done!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are not the jutice defender but only the bad news promoter and the solider of you own culture and you own country,pesonably I do not think you are from Fiji.If you are really from Fiji, I can understand why you have this standpoint.I know that the English official country can have the same information in their mind.
where are your ****ing heat come from? I just am angry about china or
whatever country who sold lethal weapons to war criminals in sudan, so I become a ****ing bad news promoter and solder of some bull shit culture?
come on! I don't promote shit, I just read news and express my personal opinion. I am a solder of nobody. I don't defend shit. I repeat myself to you again! in my eyes any countrys or any group who sell weapons to war criminals are not excused and should be blamed, no matter this country is china or America or russia or geman or britsh or JFK OR FIFA or HOLLYWOOD or whatever he is.
June 16th, 2006  
yingying
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
Ying, you best check people's profiles before you call them "boy". Filmaker is older than you. Unless of course you meant it as a racial insult which is against the rules.
Obviously I was wrong,I thought filmkaker is as young as Rabs and ASTEALdragon.
June 16th, 2006  
Rabs
 
 
Well dragon is still as older than you , and in your case I respect you about as much (or less) than the mud I have to spray off the bottom of my shoes.

Quote:
You have mentioned the word “blood suckers”.WE all know that the president of Libya is also a blood sucker.!!!!!!But your admiring country also regared him as the best friend.Can you tell me why the so called democratic-free-lightened-advanced country named America regard this blood sucker as its friend?
We dont consider him a friend hes still a dictator, he gave up his WMD program though and that gets him some benefits, far from being friend.

Also it hasnt always been that way we bombed his rear back in the 80s.
June 16th, 2006  
yingying
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabs
Well dragon is still as older than you , and in your case I respect you about as much (or less) than the mud I have to spray off the bottom of my shoes.


We dont consider him a friend hes still a dictator, he gave up his WMD program though and that gets him some benefits, far from being friend.

Also it hasnt always been that way we bombed his rear back in the 80s.
Ok,let us not talk about age question,I posted without referring the other's profile.I know that it is wrong not to respect the older.In our culture we take this seriously.
I know that you bombed LIbya in 1980s ,He is the dictater.I also know that you helped Iraq when in 1980s,and Sardamou is also the really blood sucker too.
June 16th, 2006  
SwordFish_13
 
 
Hi,

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Boy,I think you have missed India in the list of American weapon costumers.America still sell weapons to India to promote the war between India and Pakistan.


A new One For me ..... India Buys 75 % of all it's weapons From Russia Not America .......... America Has never Been a Wepon Supplier For India ...... Traditionally India Has Bought Weapons From Soviet Union , France And UK But Never From America ..... where Did you get that Info ?
 


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