USA WW2 Lend Lease - Page 2




 
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July 15th, 2015  
lljadw
 
How could Zhukow know ? He was not the Soviet chief of staff and had only a limited role in WWII.

And:Putin was wrong : there was already a virtual second on 21 june 1944,before the start of Barbarossa .
July 15th, 2015  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
How could Zhukow know ? He was not the Soviet chief of staff and had only a limited role in WWII.

And:Putin was wrong : there was already a virtual second on 21 june 1944,before the start of Barbarossa .
Are you saying Zhukov was insignificant during the war? He might know it because he was a professional high ranked officer.
July 15th, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
This argument always amuses me as Russians always underestimate the value of Lend Lease and the West overestimate its value so I will follow David Glantz path and say LL came too late to change the outcome of the war but it did shorten the war.
To back this up:
The Soviet-German war 41-45: Myths and realities - A Survey essay by David M. Glantz page 106


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July 15th, 2015  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Isn't shorten the war good enough? The Lend-Lease made the life easier for the Russians and many more of them survived the war.
July 15th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
This argument always amuses me as Russians always underestimate the value of Lend Lease and the West overestimate its value so I will follow David Glantz path and say LL came too late to change the outcome of the war but it did shorten the war.
To back this up:
The Soviet-German war 41-45: Myths and realities - A Survey essay by David M. Glantz page 106


The source by Glantz correctly states that Lend Lease did not start to really amp up until 42. Recall that the after the Soviet victory at Moscow things rapidly turned sour for the USSR with major defeats at Kharkov and the Izyum salient. It was exactly at this stage that lend lease stated to arrive mid late 42 at a time in which the USSR was by no means out of harms way. Not until the blow at Stalingrad could they look at the war with Germany with a degree of grim optimism in 43. By 43 lend lease was pouring in.
July 15th, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
If the war was lost for the Germans by the end of 1941 then what happened after 1941 is somewhat irrelevant to the argument as Lend Lease can not have been the reason the Russians defeated the Germans if Germany was already going to be defeated by the time Lend Lease arrived.

As has been pointed out, there is no doubt LL sped up the end of the war but it did not tip the balance of the war.
July 15th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
My point at is that I don't necessary agree that the war was lost in 41, but after Stalingrad in 43. I will agree that this is a point of debate for which a concrete answer may not exist. Historians can go either way as to when the Germans lost the war in the east. Some will claim it didn't occur until after the defeat at Kursk, some after the defeat at Moscow and some after the battle of Stalingrad. There exist pro and cons for each viewpoint.
July 15th, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
I was one that argued the turning point of the war was Stalingrad and German General Erhard Raus that claimed he could have won it at Kursk but I am now convinced I was wrong and so was Raus as it was a war Germany could never have won from the second it invaded the Soviet Union as it simply did not have the industrial nor logistical capability to do so.

It is very easy to look at the achievements of the German military up until Kursk and say they were still in with a chance when in reality it was a chook with its head cut off, sure it kept running forward but it was dead and didn't know it.
July 16th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Already before the start of the Soviet winter offensive, Todt told Hitler that from an economic POV the war was lost and that he had to look for a diplomatic solution .
July 16th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Are you saying Zhukov was insignificant during the war? He might know it because he was a professional high ranked officer.
Strawman :I did not say that he was insignificant,he was a high ranked officer (his importance has been much exaggerated),but that does not mean that he had informations about the Soviet war production,besides there were a lot of Soviet high ranked officers .
 


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