The U.S dropped the bombs on two cities of Japan because of a wrong translation. - Page 2




 
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June 29th, 2006  
WarMachine
 
 
I guess it's the fact that a lot of civilians died that the japanese don't like it. Just like the dresden bombing. War is hell and all that but the US went ahead and forged strong ties with japan after the war. Maybe the japanese want accountability from their ally about the dropping of the bomb and the alternative. We'd probably want that too if it were the other way around.

I do believe though if any nation had the bomb then they would use it without much hesitation back then. Nobody could defend against it and it was a devastating and scary device. So it's not as if the US was batshit for doing it, it just seemed like the KO they were looking for.

I think the firebombings hit them worse especially in tokyo. They somehow get over that but the atomic bombing still seems haunting. Maybe it was the crappy post war years where everyone was trying to put japan together and there was still some resentment over that to this day.
July 19th, 2006  
filmmaker
 
 
I can't believe this. after sixty years , some people started some stupid concept that if American gave Japanese two more days, japanese would surrender. let me guess what would be next about this concept? maybe some people will say that since japanese prepared to surrender, American should wait and try to avoid to drop atomic bombs, but American didn't give two days to japanese for preparing surrender, so America was guilty of being not humanitarian. I feel that this kind of thought is nothing but a piece of crap. America did nothing wrong in wwii! America did try their best to avoid war with japan, but japan attacked America without any warnings instead of leaving America alone. since the attack of pearl harbour, America lost their trust on what japanese tried to say. American were very suspicious of everything japan tried to make. there was no basic trust between two side at all. under such circumstance, how could American military possibly believe that japanese emperor would make real surrender rather than buying more time to prepare solid defence. America sacrificed hundreds thousand of young soldier's lifes to stop japanese ambitious aggression. see, it is very obvious that who should be blamed and who shoud be respected.
July 20th, 2006  
bulldogg
 
 
Hear hear! Well said.
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July 20th, 2006  
Dean
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by filmmaker
I can't believe this. after sixty years , some people started some stupid concept that if American gave Japanese two more days, japanese would surrender. let me guess what would be next about this concept? maybe some people will say that since japanese prepared to surrender, American should wait and try to avoid to drop atomic bombs, but American didn't give two days to japanese for preparing surrender, so America was guilty of being not humanitarian.
Up to now, you are correct. If the US had waited two days, two weeks, two months or two years, it would not have made any difference as long as the war cabinet continued to form the Japanese government. They were never going to surrender unconditionally, and when they were finally overthrown, the Emperor told the next government to accept the Allied terms. It took the dropping of the two atomic bombs to force the fall of the War Cabinet, so a surrender was never a real possibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by filmmaker
I feel that this kind of thought is nothing but a piece of crap. America did nothing wrong in wwii! America did try their best to avoid war with japan, but japan attacked America without any warnings instead of leaving America alone.
Here is where you went off track a bit. Contrary to popular belief, the US was not the victim of naked aggression. The US was upset with Japan due to their war in China, and more specifically with their treatment of US citizens they found in China. The US reaction to this situation was to enforce an oil embargo against Japan. Remember, Japan has no oil, and the results of the embargo, had it been allowed to continue, would have been disastrous for both the Japanese economy and their war effort. The bombing of Pearl Harbour had the desired effect of breaking the embargo, as the US ships enforcing it were forced to withdraw to the eastern side of the Pacific. Surprisingly enough, the US declaration of war was a surprise to most Japanese; they really felt that the US would take the raid as a warning and simply withdraw from the western Pacific. But the Japanese protested very vehemently to the US about the embargo. Unfortunately, the US simply ignored the warnings and protests they received.

Quote:
Originally Posted by filmmaker
since the attack of pearl harbour, America lost their trust on what japanese tried to say. American were very suspicious of everything japan tried to make. there was no basic trust between two side at all. under such circumstance, how could American military possibly believe that japanese emperor would make real surrender rather than buying more time to prepare solid defence. America sacrificed hundreds thousand of young soldier's lifes to stop japanese ambitious aggression. see, it is very obvious that who should be blamed and who shoud be respected.
The war cabinet was trying to negotiate a surrender, but on their own terms. They wanted to ensure that the Emperor remained as he was, a God, and as the head of the Japanese government. Other terms they asked for was that the Japanese Army not be disarmed, that the US not allow any troops on the Japanese mainland, that they keep their own government and that it be "supervised" by the Allies, that Japanese officers keep their swords and sidearms, and so on. Needless to say, the US and the rest of the Allies were never going to accept these terms. In addition, the Allies had another trump card, the fact that the Soviets were preparing their devastating attack against the Kwantung Army. So, it was not in Allied interests to accept any terms, and they did not. The dropping of the atomic bombs had the side-effect of bringing down the war cabinet, and this allowed the Emperor the freedom he needed to tell the succeeding government to accept the Allied surrender terms.

Dean.
July 20th, 2006  
filmmaker
 
 
Quote:
Here is where you went off track a bit. Contrary to popular belief, the US was not the victim of naked aggression. The US was upset with Japan due to their war in China, and more specifically with their treatment of US citizens they found in China. The US reaction to this situation was to enforce an oil embargo against Japan. Remember, Japan has no oil line, and the results of the embargo, had it been allowed to continue, would have been disastrous for both the Japanese economy and their war effort. The bombing of Pearl Harbour had the desired effect of breaking the embargo, as the US ships enforcing it were forced to withdraw to the eastern side of the Pacific. Surprisingly enough, the US declaration of war was a surprise to most Japanese; they really felt that the US would take the raid as a warning and simply withdraw from the western Pacific. But the Japanese protested very vehemently to the US about the embargo. Unfortunately, the US simply ignored the warnings and protests they received.
I appreciate your objective point of view and history class, but I have to say that no matter what kind of reason that japan utilize to justify the attack in Pearl harbour , we shouldn't forget the fact that thousands of American sailors and pilots were killed in pearl harbour and the real motivation behind this attack. I agreed with one of reasons that Japan attack US was because US cut off their oil line. according to words from japan's side,it seems that USA forced japan to attack them by halting gas supplies of japanese tanks and aircrafts, but my question is why America felt upset with japan , why America put themself into such dangerous situation by irritating one of strongest military forces back then?

when Japanese executed their dreadful plan of being new lord in eastern asia, America stood up to denounce and condemn them without fear and concede. after Japan refused to take any suggestions, US had no choice to punish them by enforcing embargo. I feel it is really unfair that some people said the reason that America tried to set some obstacles in the front of japanese war machine was because America wanted to protect their own interest in China and eastern asia. at least this kind of concept of proctecting American own interest is fail to conclude the whole stroy.

most of American felt sorry and sympathy about chinese , korean who lived under japanese occupation. most of American also felt so angry about japanese brutality and war crime in eastern asia, that they asked American government to handle japan with the tough way. regardless any consequences, US tried to support and encourage chinese government and chinese people to keep fighting against japan by smuggling weapons to china and imposing sanction against Japan. some American who were the high rank official in government secretly visited china with huge amount of money donated by lots of ordinary American. flying tiger the name used by chinese to honor American pilots who voluntarily help chinese air forces to against japanese before the pacific war.

the main reason that ordinary American were willing to help people in eastern asia was because they believed that all chinese,Korean and Taiwanese had the legitimacy to have freedom and democracy. since japanese emperor firmly took grip of ignorance and denial about democracy and freedom, japan would never truely understand why America put such tremendous effort to against them. instead of reconsidering their policy of aggression and justified protest insisted by America , Japan started to point his gun toward his next victim named United State of America. so,tell me who should be responsible of the incident in pearl harbour, America or japan? please don't tell me this kind of b******t concept that America forced japan to attack because America was reluctant to take japanese protest about oil seriously. it had nothing to do with US that japan insisted to do something totally wrong, and as a country who has the strong belief about democracy and freedom, America just did what he was supposed to do.


US was upset and angry with japanese aggression in eastern asia, but American did try to hold restrain and didn't use their military force to attack japan or physically hurt japanese. as a country who has the value of honor and self- respect, America spent lots of time negotiating with japan ,and tried to use diplomacy to solve the problem with a beautiful wish that if japan wanted war with me, they would let me know first. since American government believed that they were still in the middle of diplomatic process, they put down the alarm of japanese potential military action.
July 21st, 2006  
therise21
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean
Here is where you went off track a bit. Contrary to popular belief, the US was not the victim of naked aggression. The US was upset with Japan due to their war in China, and more specifically with their treatment of US citizens they found in China. The US reaction to this situation was to enforce an oil embargo against Japan. Remember, Japan has no oil, and the results of the embargo, had it been allowed to continue, would have been disastrous for both the Japanese economy and their war effort. The bombing of Pearl Harbour had the desired effect of breaking the embargo, as the US ships enforcing it were forced to withdraw to the eastern side of the Pacific. Surprisingly enough, the US declaration of war was a surprise to most Japanese; they really felt that the US would take the raid as a warning and simply withdraw from the western Pacific. But the Japanese protested very vehemently to the US about the embargo. Unfortunately, the US simply ignored the warnings and protests they received.
not that i dont believe you, but do you have any sources on this? i would like to read more about it. thanks, matt.
July 21st, 2006  
WarMachine
 
 
I thought the embargo was the denial of oil from America. From what i'm hearing, it sounds like the US actually sent ships to make sure Japan didn't receive oil from anyone. That doesn't make sense though, america was isolationist in military all the way up to pearl harbor, they wouldn't send a large patrol in the western pacific for an embargo. That would have been very risky given the strength of the japanese navy back then and distance from home.

Clarify please.
August 29th, 2006  
Easy-8
 
 

I have much hate in my heart for conspiracy theories as most of them are pure BS.
September 4th, 2006  
Dean
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by therise21
not that i dont believe you, but do you have any sources on this? i would like to read more about it. thanks, matt.
I read about this in books 'way back when I was but a lad in high school, and the net was a haven for the geeks in ARPA. I did a very minor search, and I found a decent, if simplistic explanation at this site.

http://www.indiana.edu/~hisdcl/h207_2002/bix4.htm

BTW, I have never stated or implied that Japan was justified in attacking Pearl Harbour. All I said is that it was not the naked aggression that many make it out to be. There was a war of words that had been brewing for a long time, warnings from both sides, and then the attack. Many sources have also implied that there were warnings from the US intelligence community that went unheeded (particularly with regards to the Philippines) that could have changed events significantly if the US military prepared itself sooner. But really, think about it. Japan was already at war with Britain, the US was openly supporting Britain, the US then takes concrete steps to cut of Japan's oil, and the US is sticking to its isolationist policy. What did you think that Japanese were going to do?

Dean.
September 6th, 2006  
boris116
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by therise21
not that i dont believe you, but do you have any sources on this? i would like to read more about it. thanks, matt.
I would highly recommend Volume 3 of the "History of US Naval operations in WWII" by Samuel Morisson

I believe that on of the main reasons for this war was a HUGE misunderstanding between the Japanese and American peoples. It was mutual.
1. Mutual racism(against each other)
2. Complete ignorance about other side's mentality, goals, ways of life, etc.

The Americans were able to overcome this ignorance by 1943-44, the Japanese couldn't.
 


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