Hitler grossly underestimated the Soviet Union's ability and will to resist and Barbarossa reflected that. IMO Barbarossa should have been planned as a 2 year campaign. 1941 would see the 3-pronged approach but Army Groups' North and Centre would halt outside of Leningrad and Smolensk respectively and dig-in until Spring '42. Army Group South, reinforced to be the strongest, would take the original objectives of the '42 campaign (Case Blau) and then dig in itself for winter. Come Spring '42, Army Group Centre would be reinforced and would drive for Moscow, being a LOT stronger and rested than it was historically, as combat replacements and re-supplies would be in place. Army Group North would be stronger too and would capture Leningrad. Army Group South would undertake no offensive operations and would merely hold its ground.

I believe this strategy might have resulted in a decisive German victory.

kar98k....If Hitler did not want to invade Britain then just why did he assemble an invasion fleet all along the coast of Europe, and why did the German Generals make plans for the invasion to be implemented as soon as they had gained control of the Air. Why did they try and destroy the RAF so that they could invade, it was only after Hitler had bombed London by mistake and Churchill sent his bombers to Berlin [what few we had] that Hitler changed tactics and went for London rather than the RAF that changed this Battle

Hitler contimplated invasion be he felt it too risky...i have a question for u... do u think if russia started bombing Berlin in 41-42 Hitler would have said, "Oh well u know what?.... lets just stop invasion of russia and pack up and go home and invade someone else?" I highly doubt it.

All his generals came up with plans just to be ready...the Luftwaffe told the army that they could batter britain to submission and that an invasion is to costly.


Yes good point Dopple but the problem with that is you don't have one clear objective...u say u want Leningrad and then u say u want moscow...both would be hard roads...now i understand taking a defensive position however the Germans were not prepared for winter and if they were the supply would be too long, plus north was under strength a lot. I think a single massive force to push on Moscow would have been tremendously easier...Leningrad when captured gave Germany nothin...so y take it? to lose lives? I think if he just pushed on Moscow with Army group north, center, and south and surrounded Moscow, wars over. Even if u just brought north down to reinforce and have south in the Caucusus center still could have taken moscow.


On to the march of Moscow!!!!

kar98k.....Funny you should mention about Russia bombing Berlin, did you know that their bomber carried out a few raids in 42/43 just to prove that they could do it. May be if you where a bit older you might remember these little things that are not in the history books

...yea ok so russia can reach berlin but that was after germany was already doomed and i am sure berlin can handle a few raids..its just an oponion man dont get personal about it its not like i said, no u were wrong..i stated my oponion and then backed it up with valitity...so what i am 20 big deal doesnt mean i cant object to something i dont believe in...yea so what i didnt live it or whatever but u know what a lot of other 20 year olds are doin right about now not talking about ww2 thats for sure and it only gets worse as u go down the line...yea i read history books and look through diagrams of battle maps, it is also my course of study so i am also constantly lectured on it...so please dont make it personal when i object to somethin its not your right.....

oh yea by the way i found a later post about the battle britain i think u should read it....

http://www.military-quotes.com/forum...pic.php?t=6476

Originally Posted by LeEnfield

kar98k....If Hitler did not want to invade Britain then just why did he assemble an invasion fleet all along the coast of Europe, and why did the German Generals make plans for the invasion to be implemented as soon as they had gained control of the Air. Why did they try and destroy the RAF so that they could invade, it was only after Hitler had bombed London by mistake and Churchill sent his bombers to Berlin [what few we had] that Hitler changed tactics and went for London rather than the RAF that changed this Battle

I dont think it is a matter of not wanting to invade Britain I just think he realised that he didnt have the capacity to maintain a bridgehead on the mainland while both the RAF and the Navy remained a potent fighting force.
My personal belief is that the invasion "fleet" which was really little more than a bunch of barges was more to keep the British military at home so they could operate though out the rest of the "empire" much easier.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Hitler grossly underestimated the Soviet Union's ability and will to resist and Barbarossa reflected that. IMO Barbarossa should have been planned as a 2 year campaign. 1941 would see the 3-pronged approach but Army Groups' North and Centre would halt outside of Leningrad and Smolensk respectively and dig-in until Spring '42. Army Group South, reinforced to be the strongest, would take the original objectives of the '42 campaign (Case Blau) and then dig in itself for winter. Come Spring '42, Army Group Centre would be reinforced and would drive for Moscow, being a LOT stronger and rested than it was historically, as combat replacements and re-supplies would be in place. Army Group North would be stronger too and would capture Leningrad. Army Group South would undertake no offensive operations and would merely hold its ground.

I believe this strategy might have resulted in a decisive German victory.

But when the Germany would rest SU would bring up all reserves to the front.

kar98k.....The Russian started to carry out the odd raid on Berlin long before they had the upper hand, and by the time they had got the upper hand they lost interest due to raids round the clock by the allies, they probably felt and correctly so that they could use these bombers better else where. Also have you ever looked at the German invasion plans for Britain, that had been complied very throughly and every thing had been planned right down to Regional Control Centres, and also a list of all the peoples that would be arrested on the spot plus a list that would face execution. So don't try telling me that there were no real plans for the invasion and the ones that had been made were only half hearted. They had planned this invasion down to the last item. It was only the efforts of the RAF that held them back long enough for the weather to make a landing impossible, and give us a chance to organise our selfs a bit better.

Mod Edit: One more outburst like that, and you will be removed from this forum.

a number of factors i believe turned the war

1 americans entering the war 1942 helping the british kick the germans out of afirca then land in italy.
2 russias victory at stalingrad
3 russias victory at kursk
4 allied landings on normandy
5 battle of britain victory
6 constant bombings of germany by allies
7 battle of bulge victory
8of course battle of belin victory
9 last but not least hitlers idiocy