Yeah but the Leo 2 in A'Stan hasn't ever been in a tank on tank engagement. I think that's what most of the fuss is about.
Looks like the Leo 2 in the first photo had a bit of a fender bender incident!

Ortman, the K1A1 is basically a modified M1A1. Obviously General Dynamics wouldn't allow it for foreign sales.

Originally Posted by Sven Ortmann

I've read somewhere that K2 was designed to replace some K1A1 components.
K1A1 was apparently not available for export because of foreign rights owners blocking the export of a tank with their components (I think U.S.).

The general design of K1/K2 is quite well-matched for the hilly Korean terrain - the hydropneumatic suspension increases the effective gun elevation/depression - very important in such terrain (and in cities).

Yes, some of that does hold some substance, I think the majority of the issues may have been with Germany and ROK, I know the U.S was not holding them up as far as *potential* sales of K1 and K1A1 to Thailand, Indonesia and Singapore.

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

Nice. Maybe one day I'll be a TC on a K2.

If you ever have to just settle for the K1A1 then you will not be disappointed, it is a good tank also.

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

Yeah but the Leo 2 in A'Stan hasn't ever been in a tank on tank engagement. I think that's what most of the fuss is about.
Looks like the Leo 2 in the first photo had a bit of a fender bender incident!

Ortman, the K1A1 is basically a modified M1A1. Obviously General Dynamics wouldn't allow it for foreign sales.

Just think if that very same tank had to do what it was designed to do, offensive tank on tank engagements with all that RPG 7 rebar along the skirts, I would give that tank less than 5 minutes moving cross country before it was completely torn off the vehicle. I guess for a urban quick fix it works though.

Just hope I do get the K1A1.
I have a 50/50 odds between the K1 or K1A1 and the M48.
Worse they could put me on some gay ass bridge layer or worse, a recovery vehicle.

Originally Posted by Pale Rider

Yes, some of that does hold some substance, I think the majority of the issues may have been with Germany and ROK, I know the U.S was not holding them up as far as *potential* sales of K1 and K1A1 to Thailand, Indonesia and Singapore.

The German legal situation would have posed no problems with Thailand or Singapore and does likely pose no problems for arms exports to Indonesia any more.

We have a law (rare exceptions granted by cabinet-level comittee) that prevents the delivery of military hardware into crisis regions.
The law in itself would not be a significant problem for the export of parts or licenses to South Korea and their later export of hardware anywhere, though (afaik).
I can only imagine that (if Germans were really a problem for such exports at all) their license treaty itself had prohibitive terms. Maybe deliberately built in to minimize competition for Leo2.

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

Just hope I do get the K1A1.
I have a 50/50 odds between the K1 or K1A1 and the M48.
Worse they could put me on some gay ass bridge layer or worse, a recovery vehicle.

Those bridge layers (combat engineers) operating AVLBS could have a tough go of it if security (over watch isn`t proper).

Those tankers will be at your mercy if they have vehicle issues, I always went out my way to keep our maintenance team was well taken care of, it is a bugger operating a tank during winter conditions in ROK without a vehicle crew heater.

Originally Posted by Sven Ortmann

The German legal situation would have posed no problems with Thailand or Singapore and does likely pose no problems for arms exports to Indonesia any more.

We have a law (rare exceptions granted by cabinet-level comittee) that prevents the delivery of military hardware into crisis regions.
The law in itself would not be a significant problem for the export of parts or licenses to South Korea and their later export of hardware anywhere, though (afaik).
I can only imagine that (if Germans were really a problem for such exports at all) their license treaty itself had prohibitive terms. Maybe deliberately built in to minimize competition for Leo2.

I think the issue was inregards to the engine pact of K1 series, this may have also played a factor in ROK designing their engine pact system also for K2, the extent of the issue though I really do not know, but would have to agree with you that I could not see any real reasons why Germany would want to black ball the countries being referenced.

Worse they could put me on some gay ass bridge layer or worse, a recovery vehicle

Actually bridge layers are kind of cool. Prority targets though, might as well put abig bullseye on your forhead.

Exactly. And you can't shoot back.