Submarine Warfare

June 14th, 2009  

Topic: Submarine Warfare

WIth the introduction of the AIP systems, I think this particular field of warfare is finally regaining its historic importance. AIP (air independent propulsion) enables submarines to stay submerged for weeks at a time and remain as the invisible, silent hunters they are. Radar cannot penetrate water at frequencies that can detect subs and even the best sonars have limited range.

My question is; can having AIP subs counteract a numerically superrior enemy surface fleet? What is the main purpose of a sub? Are air-based ASW methods too powerful for even the newer generation subs to make a difference? What do you all think about subs and submarine warfare in general?

June 19th, 2009  

Topic: Re: Submarine Warfare

The new AIP gives the SSK (NOTE) new endurance, not a whole lot more mobility! Yes, they can remain underwater for three to five weeks but, when a SSI leaves port, it has a finite amount of energy. It has X number of gallons of diesel fuel, Y amount of mega-watts in battery power and, Z amount of watts with AIP system. The captain has to use this wisely. This includes the sailing to the patrol area, patrolling and, returning. The primary task of the AIP is to recharge the batteries. The AIP provides a steady source of power. If the sub runs out of energy, it will need a tow back to port!
An SSK equip with AIP are now being designated (SSI).

Most SSKs can drain a fully charged battery pack in three to four hours at speeds above 15kts!! Then several hours would be needed to recharge the battery pack. The entire power package can be tied to the propulsion system to provide speeds up to 21-kts! But once this happens and the power from the batteries is drained, the sub must remain quiet until the batteries are recharged.

In answer to your question, yes the SSI can hamper the ability of a surface fleet. This is nothing new, for submarines have always had an advantage which required many destroyers to destroy or chase off a submarine. The submarine is the original stealth war machine.

The SSI will not replace the SSN but, it does provide a lot more flexibility to the navies that have them, in their ability to control their coastal waters. The SSK or SSI are great weapon systems for controlling choke points or coastlines to protect against enemy amphibious fleets. They are far less of a threat to carriers in the open ocean traveling at 25-kts plus. The new SSIs are getting as quiet as the best of the SSBNs! The SSBN is the sub where no expense is spared. Any submarine regardless of propulsion, has the 'hotel noises'. The noises of the sensors, lights, air conditioning, heating, and other necessary auxiliaries. These normally are in the order of 50-80 kilowatts (KW), continuously.

In an article, "Diesels or Nukes", by Robert A. Hamilton (originally published in the New London Day on Feb. 29, 2004). Hamilton quotes Lt. Cmdr. Todd Cloutier, "don't think of it as a very small SSN, it doesn't have the speed, it doesn't have the endurance, and it has counter-detection limitations." (The last point was not expanded upon!) "The biggest advantage, though, is to our taxpayers and their confidence in us."
April 17th, 2010  

Topic: Post; Re: Submarine Warfare

I agree with the reply. The sub pilot has to take into account everything that his boat can do every time he goes out and he has to balance them accordingly. Use too much of one thing and you'll have to balance it out. Actually, I have an old naval simulator called SSN-21 Seawolf. At first when I started playing, I kept making the mistake of loading and shooting off all six tubes at once. usually ended up having to evade my own torpedos in the end. So yeah. Same thing goes with fuel consumption, especially in diesels. I mean you only carry a limited amount of diesel and fuel for the AIP system. so use anything in excess and you'll be short when you really need it.
April 17th, 2010  
What about laying low in the path of a CG, gong for the big piece (in ahypothetical scenario where you hav the advantage of surprise)?

If I understand right, those modern boats (e.g. German 212 Class) are not only very silent (and can reduce noise to zero for some time), but also do not show up on Magnetic Distortion Detection tools?

My idea (and I only have basic understanding of submarine warfare) would be that a CG would be predictble when threatened as it has to turn into the wind, if planned beforehand (trigger threat induction included) should not be impossible to stealth away a launch platform of these characteristics in the predicted path taking out the carrier?

April 19th, 2010  
Korean Seaboy
The submarine is now finally being realized their full potential....
April 22nd, 2010  

Topic: Re: Submarine Warfare

Originally Posted by rattler
What about laying low in the path of a CG, gong for the big piece (in ahypothetical scenario where you hav the advantage of surprise)?
That can only really happen at choke points or against amphibious fleets when they approach an area that can be highly anticipated to be area for amphibious operation.
But, before a carrier is sent into an area, SSN's are sent in to 'sanitize' the area and insure it is free from enemy subs and sea mines.
An SSK/SSI would have a difficult time trying to interfere with flight operations of a NATO carrier as it moves around the Arabian Sea conducting flight operations over Afghanistan.
Submarines would have difficulty detecting wind movements, especially changes in wind directions. It would have to come to periscope depth.

Originally Posted by Korean Seaboy
The submarine is now finally being realized their full potential....
That came about with nuclear power!
May 5th, 2010  
Submariners like to say "There are two types of vessels-subs and targets."

I'm a confirmed land lubber wha has played a couple sub sims.

Close as I'm going.
May 8th, 2010  
wolfen ats why god made s-3 vikings And P-3 Orion's. LOL

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