Soviet advisors in Vietnam and terrorists.




 
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June 17th, 2005  
bulldogg
 
 

Topic: Soviet advisors in Vietnam and terrorists.


I have had the opportunity to befriend and engage in conversation an old soldier from the Russian far east who had served in Vietnam. He was an 'advisor' to the Hanoi government in the late 60's. He showed me pictures and scars and retold tales of his experiences. He expressed respect and admiration for the American troops for the way they conducted themselves on the battlefield. He cried when he recounted orders he obeyed that harmed POW's. But he became quite angry when he asked why the US government had abandoned so many troops that were still in enemy hands when they left in 1975. As a Russian he was glad the US lost, as a soldier he was angered at how these troops were treated.

He was quite candid about his desire back in the early 60's to hopefully go to war. He wanted his government to invade the US and end the "cold war" instead of the slow death. Now of course his opinion has changed. He still deeply distrusts the American government as well as his own but he wouldn't want to harm another human being for anything less than protecting himself, his family or his country from invasion.

We still have frequent conversations and I hope to write a book one day but it made me pause to think how many gung-ho troops of today are being turned into remorseful old men. And for what? The crisis and great evil of today is terrorism. Terror is the weapon of the weak employed against the invincible. When the legitimate troops of your nemesis are beyond harm, like those of the US, the enemy will strike where the beast is soft, civilians. Terrorism of today is the cold war of yesterday. Something easily avoided with the use of the brain and not the brawn. Terrorism against the US is a direct result of the illegal and secret activities of the pentagon through JCET et al and the CIA for the last 50 years.

The US has weakened the weak and further impoverished the poor through supporting oppressive governments and super austerity measures of the IMF and World Bank. And the only ones who don't know this are the Americans themselves, the victims in this have known all along. The memory of the oppressed is long and they are now hitting back from whence their pain came. And it is the soldiers who are dying for the ignorance of the masses.
July 3rd, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
Nice rhetoric looks good on you. But what's the whole point? Thats what I'd like to know.

Is it................................................ ...........................................

The US purposely abandoned POW's in SEA? Got any facts to back that up?

That the US thru Military Advisory Missions and with the aid of the CIA, NSA, DIA or whatever Alphabet Agency caused terrorism?

That if we just pour money into unfriendly,3rd and 4th world $#** holes that we can avert the threat of terrorism?
July 3rd, 2005  
Redneck
 
 
I second that, what is your point with this topic?
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July 7th, 2005  
bulldogg
 
 
Since you two are now my biggest fans apparently I will say that it has several points. One is yes, American POWs were left behind in Southeast Asia and the US government knew about it. Furthermore it purposely slandered and silenced those who knew about it.

Into the Buzzsaw
ISBN 1-57392-972-7
Pages 223-246

Terrorism is the blowback from secret government actions around the globe.

The Sorrows of Empire
ISBN 0-80507-797-9

And the final point is my opinion that war is the failure of diplomacy similar in line with the thinking of Von Clausewitz's famous treatise on war.
July 7th, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
You know I've spent a couple of hours researching the two sources provided above. And all I've got to say is. If you want to use those to support your position go ahead I'm not buying it.

Buzzsaw reeks of conspiracy theories directed at "poor noble journalists" And using PFC Garwood as a source a collaborator taints anything that maybe true. It's always been suspected that MIA/POW'S were held to extort the reparation payments they were hostages. Thats not a revelation...sorry. The theory has been around since the late 70's. Vietnam attempted to extort the US and failed to reparate POW's or account for MIA's they held. Thats what refusal of payment was about.

As far as Chalmers Johnson are you sure he didn't co authour with Jim Garrison? Come on Military Industrial Complex ! I find in humor that his theory that US bases or "Empire" based on bases causes the problem. Yeah all those bases we have in Syria, riiiiggggghhhttt.

I did laugh my 4th Point of Contact off when this Dweezeel opined that Marines of the 3rd MARDIV stationed on Okinowhere enjoyed a better quality of life than the Marines Stationed At Pendelton. Must have missed the Marine Corps Ritz at Hansen and Schwab during my trips to the Rock.
July 7th, 2005  
Italian Guy
 
 
USMC03: (the others)



July 7th, 2005  
Starker
 
what i don't get is how can this person you have spoken with be angry at the US and what we did to our troops when he was the one treating POW's this way to begin with?
July 8th, 2005  
bulldogg
 
 
03, you can believe what you want. I know people who were in Vietnam I met at Firebase Indy back in the early 90's that tell this story and others far more treacherous in relation to the way the US government handled the MIA-POWS in Vietnam even prior to the 75 pull out. But name calling?

Starker, he was upset because of this. As he saw it following orders to torture prisoners into giving up vital intel was a legitmate activity. Much the same as what is rumoured and mildly substantiated to be happening in the "war on terror" today. But the abandoning of prisoners and claiming they were all accounted for was unpardonable. A treasonous act abandoning soldiers to rot away in enemy hands. That's why he cried.
July 8th, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
03, you can believe what you want. I know people who were in Vietnam I met at Firebase Indy back in the early 90's that tell this story and others far more treacherous in relation to the way the US government handled the MIA-POWS in Vietnam even prior to the 75 pull out. But name calling?

Your right and I choose not to put much creedence in the sources you posted. In my opinion as I have stated they are slanted to a point of view you wish me to except at face value. Thats not gonna happen.

For future reference you do not have the corner on serving with Vietnam Veterans or "knowing" same.

As far as name calling ....My bad. But my opinion on Johnson stands. Especially in his take of the Marine Corps on Okinawa.
July 10th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Dweezel? You called him Frank Zappa's son, 03? For shame!