So why do people hate Israel?

[senojekips]

So, in spite of all your lies and attempted diversion from the facts, it can still be said that Australia does not treat it's Aboriginal population like Israel treats the Palestinians. Yes, I'm sorry but your attempt at diverting my point has not worked.

And for the record just to show again what a liar you are.

You call a 15gr low speed bullet that almost impossible can hurt someone beyond 40 meters a dangerous weapon

Yes I do, because they are almost always used at ranges well within their ability to kill and maim, and oddly enough, so do Israeli doctors, and the Internationally esteemed medical Journal "The Lancet"

Here's the details on your harmless "Rubber Bullets"

Both rubber and plastic-coated metal bullets are capable of entering the skull cavity and also breaking bones.
Israeli professor Michael Krausz and colleagues at the Rambam Medical Center in Haifa analysed the medical records of 595 casualties admitted to hospital during the October 2000 protests by Palestinians living inside Israel (typically described as “Israeli Arabs” by the media).
Of those, 152 were found to have been injured by rubber-coated metal bullets. Injuries were distributed randomly across their bodies but were most common on the patients’ arms and legs, and on their head, neck and face.
The doctors said their findings dismissed the theory that “rubber bullets” were safe.

Rubber-coated metal bullets with some of their rubber coating removed, revealing their hard steel core. Fired at speeds of what must be several hundred feet a second, these are munitions that cause enough damage that their manufacturers feel compelled to describe them as only “less lethal”.(than Ball ammunition)

Writing in the medical journal, The Lancet, they said firing the bullets at civilians made it “impossible to avoid severe injuries to vulnerable body regions such as the head, neck and upper torso, leading to substantial mortality, morbidity and disability.”
They added: “We reported a substantial number of severe injuries and fatalities inflicted by use of rubber bullets when vulnerable upper-body regions such as the head, neck and upper torso were struck.

As I have stated several times, these are not "Rubber Bullets" but "Steel Bullets" only coated with enough rubber to try and justify the name.

So, despite your best efforts to divert the subject,... the bound and blindfolded Palestinian was deliberately taken aside and shot for no reason with a weapon known to be fully capable of lethal injuries, and we Australians do not control our Aboriginal people in this manner, which is the point that was being made.

 

[MontyB]

The article is very clear. The Jews were the victim not the culprit.
You still haven't read the annual reports from the mandate.

I agree it does show that the victims were Jewish no arguments here but what it also shows is an organisation called the Palestinian government now when you look at that you might think how can a group of people VD is trying to tell us are figments of our imagination have a government, I am betting the "Palestinian government" was also a figment of someones imagination and despite it being recorded in newspapers around the world would never have been a real government that for example issued its own currency...

To quote the great philosopher Homer... Simpson "DOH!!!!"

Based on this information I would suggest that the mandate plan for Palestine was that a country called Palestine was meant to exist and given that it issued coinage in both Arabic and Hebrew said country was meant to house both Arab and Jew and had it not been for the European invasion of the 1940s that is precisely what we would have had now.

Now I have answered your questions primarily:
1) Show me a Palestinian state... Done
2) Show its capital... Done
3) Prove Palestinians existed prior to "Yasser Arafat inventing them"... Done

Now it is your turn prove to me that any of Israel's history is real, short of its barbaric history of the last 70 years because quite frankly that one Palestinian coin is more solid proof of a Palestinian state than has been dug up to prove there was ever a Kingdom of Israel.

PS Arafat was born in 1929 after the coin (1927) and NY Times post (1920) so no they weren't his childhood ambitions.

 

[VDKMS]

So, in spite of all your lies and attempted diversion from the facts, it can still be said that Australia does not treat it's Aboriginal population like Israel treats the Palestinians. Yes, I'm sorry but your attempt at diverting my point has not worked.

And for the record just to show again what a liar you are.
Yes I do, because they are almost always used at ranges well within their ability to kill and maim, and oddly enough, so do Israeli doctors, and the Internationally esteemed medical Journal "The Lancet"

Here's the details on your harmless "Rubber Bullets"
As I have stated several times, these are not "Rubber Bullets" but "Steel Bullets" only coated with enough rubber to try and justify the name.

So, despite your best efforts to divert the subject,... the bound and blindfolded Palestinian was deliberately taken aside and shot for no reason with a weapon known to be fully capable of lethal injuries, and we Australians do not control our Aboriginal people in this manner, which is the point that was being made.

Thank you for your explanation. But something doesn't add up. Here you are saying that the "rubber" bullet can be deadly at close range but the picture you showed in post #1652 where you said he was shot in the foot. Although frame 633 from the clip where the picture was taken from clearly shows an unharmed foot.
Either way, one of your posts is wrong. Which one is it?

I agree it does show that the victims were Jewish no arguments here but what it also shows is an organisation called the Palestinian government now when you look at that you might think how can a group of people VD is trying to tell us are figments of our imagination have a government, I am betting the "Palestinian government" was also a figment of someones imagination and despite it being recorded in newspapers around the world would never have been a real government that for example issued its own currency...

To quote the great philosopher Homer... Simpson "DOH!!!!"

Based on this information I would suggest that the mandate plan for Palestine was that a country called Palestine was meant to exist and given that it issued coinage in both Arabic and Hebrew said country was meant to house both Arab and Jew and had it not been for the European invasion of the 1940s that is precisely what we would have had now.

There never was any word about creating a "Palestinian" state. The mandate is very clear about that. It was ment to reconstitute the former Jewish homeland, meaning Eretz Yisrael. This comprised nowadays Israel plus Judea and Samaria (West Bank) and Gaza. It also said not to prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities.
The coinage issued was not in Hebrew and Arabic, but in Hebrew, Arabic and English. Are you now saying that "Palestine" was also meant to house British? Do you know that the current Israeli shekels are also in Hebrew, Arabic and English? As does their road signs. See, Israel does care about their Arab citizens. The road signs in the PA are only in Arabic and English.
The European invasion has nothing to do with it. The British neglected to fulfill their mandate: the reconstitution of a Jewish State.

Now I have answered your questions primarily:
1) Show me a Palestinian state... Done
2) Show its capital... Done
3) Prove Palestinians existed prior to "Yasser Arafat inventing them"... Done

You seem to confuse a state with a mandate. There was no "Palestinian" state, there was a "Palestine" mandate.

Now it is your turn prove to me that any of Israel's history is real, short of its barbaric history of the last 70 years because quite frankly that one Palestinian coin is more solid proof of a Palestinian state than has been dug up to prove there was ever a Kingdom of Israel.

OK.

Silver Shekels, the Hasmoneans, and Chanukah from about 140 BCE.

Antiochus VII (Sidetes), the son of Demetrius I, granted to Simon Maccabaeus, “the priest and prince of the Jews,” the right of coining money. This was to be “with his own stamp,” and to be current “in his own country”.​

PS Arafat was born in 1929 after the coin (1927) and NY Times post (1920) so no they weren't his childhood ambitions.

PS, the coins were for the British Mandate of Palestine and not the "Palestinian State". Their use ended together with the mandate. Was valid in Israel until September 15, 1948; in the Gaza Strip region of Egypt until June 9, 1951; and in Jordan until June 30, 1951.

You are still grasping at straws.

 

[senojekips]

Thank you for your explanation. But something doesn't add up. Here you are saying that the "rubber" bullet can be deadly at close range but the picture you showed in post #1652 where you said he was shot in the foot. Although frame 633 from the clip where the picture was taken from clearly shows an unharmed foot.
Either way, one of your posts is wrong. Which one is it?

The only thing that does not "add up" is your litany of lies, it's just that you are too stupid to recognise the fact. Firstly you show the frame that "clearly shows" an unharmed foot seen unshod and from all angles. We all know that with you being a qualified medical practitioner specialising in long range film diagnosis your findings will outweigh what the remainder of the world can see and understand. Would you care to explain how you have arrived at your marvelous conclusion when everyone who has seen this understands exactly what has happened,... including the Israeli Army who charged those responsible and then found them both guilty,... (but as always with Israel, only after the video evidence was aired around the world and they were shamed into doing something about it). :smile:

No,... I never said that these projectiles are capable of lethal damage Israeli doctors stated that, and I merely agree with that finding.
So, it's pretty obvious that a projectile capable of the damage documented by those Israeli doctors as "lethal and able to break bones", fired at a range of less than a metre is going to do serious damage. I would believe their information rather than your guesswork... or is it just another of your lies?

The damage done was never the point, the point was to show the criminal behaviour of the IDF in their handling of blindfolded and bound Palestinian prisoners.

I also noted how you have again completely ignored the original point being made, about the treatment of Aboriginals as compared with the way Israel treats Palestinians?..... Unless the Federal government invokes Martial law, our Military forces are not even allowed to be used to control civil unrest of any kind.

 

[MontyB]

OK.

Silver Shekels, the Hasmoneans, and Chanukah from about 140 BCE.

Antiochus VII (Sidetes), the son of Demetrius I, granted to Simon Maccabaeus, “the priest and prince of the Jews,” the right of coining money. This was to be “with his own stamp,” and to be current “in his own country”.​

Very nice but sadly you will have to try again...
If my history classes are still accurate and my Googling finger is still functional my sources tell me Antiochus VII was a Seleucid leader and oddly enough one of the regions of Seleucid empire was what is now Israel now given that the quote you happily passed on said that "Antiochus VII (Sidetes), granted to Simon Maccabaeus, “the priest and prince of the Jews,” the right of coining money." which if my grasp of the English language is still "Ok" would indicate that Simon Maccabaeus was an underling of Antiochus VII and further to this a simple tap of a few keys tells us that the Seleucid empire practiced Olympianism, Babylonian religion and Zoroastrianism.

The interesting thing about those religions is that none of them are Jewish and none of them are even monotheistic which should indicate just how influential early Judaism was in that it did not even feature as a recorded sect of the Seleucid empire.

So on the whole you coin does nothing for your argument as it does not show a Kingdom of Israel just that the Hasmonean kingdom existed and we all know that was just a few villiages comprising an area about 1/10th the size of current Israel if that.

In fact Wiki has it right here:

 

[MontyB]

Found this kind of interesting...

Gates Says Israel Gave In on Saudi Arms After F-35 Pledge

By Tony Capaccio
January 09, 2014 3:00 PM ESThttp://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/20...-saudi-arms-after-f-35-pledge.html#disqus-tab

Israel didn’t oppose a $60 billion U.S. arms sale to Saudi Arabia, in part because the Pentagon agreed to sell the Israelis at least 20 new Lockheed Martin Corp. (LMT) F-35 jets, according to the new book by Robert Gates.
The 2010 sale of 154 new and modernized Boeing Co. (BA) F-15 jets and attack helicopters, plus parts and munitions, “especially exercised” the Israeli leadership as “it came at a bad time in the relationship,” the former defense secretary wrote.
The sale came after the Obama administration had “leaned heavily” on Israel to impose a 10-month freeze on building settlements in the West Bank, which Israel took from Jordan in the 1967 Six-Day War, according to Gates. Israel said in March 2010 that it would continue building settlements.
A series of meetings with Gates, Defense Minister Ehud Barak and Prime Minister Benjamin “Bibi” Netanyahu resulted in a working group to ensure that the Saudi sale didn’t erode Israel’s “qualitative military edge” against its Arab neighbors. Maintaining that edge is a long-standing U.S. foreign policy objective.
Related:

• Gates Shatters Image of Calmness in Faulting Obama on War
• White House Pushes Back at Gates’ Book Claim on Biden

By July 2010, after back-and-forth discussions that also focused on providing more U.S. missile defense equipment to Israel, “Barak talked to Netanyahu,” and “Bibi had agreed not to object to the Saudi sale -- in exchange for more military equipment, including 20 additional F-35s,” Gates wrote in “Duty,” scheduled for publication on Jan. 14.
Lockheed Martin spokeswoman Laura Siebert said today in an e-mail that the current Israeli order is for 19 jets.
Military Sales

Most of the media attention on “Duty” has focused on Gates’ criticism of President Barack Obama’s approach to the war in Afghanistan. The F-35 episode -- an example of how foreign military sales are used as foreign policy tools -- is buried in the 594-page book.
In this case, the issue was balancing the needs of two Middle East allies against a common adversary, Iran, and at the same time dealing with the enmity between Saudi Arabia and Israel.
Gates’s balancing act also strengthened alliance support for the F-35, the Pentagon’s most expensive weapons program. It resulted in a $2.75 billion contract for Bethesda, Maryland-based Lockheed Martin, the world’s No. 1 defense contractor, and new work for Israeli companies such as Elbit Systems Ltd. (ESLT) Haifa-based Elbit is developing the helmet for use by F-35 pilots with Rockwell Collins Inc. based in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
In the book, Gates also has some criticism for Israel. “I believe Israel’s strategic situation is worsening, its own actions contributing to its isolation” he wrote.
‘Strategically Stupid’

Gates labeled as “strategically stupid” the January 2010 assassination of a Hamas leader in Dubai, “however morally justified” it was, because “the incompetently run operation was quickly discovered and Israel fingered as responsible.”
The incident cost Israel “the quiet cooperation of the United Arab Emirates on security matters,” he wrote. The U.A.E. has been a conduit for financial aid to some Islamic extremist groups, according to U.S. intelligence officials.
“As Israel’s neighbors acquire ever more sophisticated weapons and their publics become ever more hostile, I, as a very strong friend and supporter of Israel believe Jerusalem needs to think anew about its strategic environment,” Gates wrote.
Gates’s discussion of the F-15 sale, which reads like a diplomatic cable, provides a rare look at the negotiations with a longtime American ally about a touchy regional arms issue.
‘My Frenemy’

When Netanyahu “complained about the number of F-15s the Saudis would be buying or upgrading, I pointedly asked him, ‘When did Saudi Arabia ever attack Israel? How long would those planes continue to work without U.S. support?’” Gates wrote.
According to Gates, Netanyahu responded by asking, “What about a counterbalancing investment in our military? How do we compensate on the Israeli side?”
Gates wrote: “Exasperated, I shot back that no U.S. administration had done more, in concrete ways, for Israel’s strategic defense than Obama’s.”
“I used the line that the enemy of my enemy is my friend,” Gates wrote. Netanyahu “replied acidly, ‘In the Middle East, the enemy of my enemy is my frenemy.’”
For his part, Saudi Arabia’s King Abdullah wanted to buy from the U.S. because “he wanted all the Saudi money to go toward military equipment and not into a Swiss bank,” Gates wrote.
‘Strategic Relationship’

The king “explicitly told me that he saw the huge purchase as an investment in a long-term strategic relationship,” while “at the same time, Abdullah was very cautious about any kind of overt military cooperation or planning” that the Iranians “might consider an act of war.”
The package includes 84 new F-15s and upgrades to 70 more in the Saudi inventory at a cost of $30 billion, and helicopter sales totaling about $30 billion that included spare parts, training simulators, long-term logistics support and some munitions.
It also includes versions of Chicago-based Boeing’s satellite-guided Joint Direct Attack Munition, which the Saudis first bought in 2008.

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/20...-gave-in-on-saudi-arms-after-f-35-pledge.html

 

[VDKMS]

The only thing that does not "add up" is your litany of lies, it's just that you are too stupid to recognise the fact. Firstly you show the frame that "clearly shows" an unharmed foot seen unshod and from all angles. We all know that with you being a qualified medical practitioner specialising in long range film diagnosis your findings will outweigh what the remainder of the world can see and understand. Would you care to explain how you have arrived at your marvelous conclusion when everyone who has seen this understands exactly what has happened,... including the Israeli Army who charged those responsible and then found them both guilty,... (but as always with Israel, only after the video evidence was aired around the world and they were shamed into doing something about it). :smile:

No,... I never said that these projectiles are capable of lethal damage Israeli doctors stated that, and I merely agree with that finding.
So, it's pretty obvious that a projectile capable of the damage documented by those Israeli doctors as "lethal and able to break bones", fired at a range of less than a metre is going to do serious damage. I would believe their information rather than your guesswork... or is it just another of your lies?

The damage done was never the point, the point was to show the criminal behaviour of the IDF in their handling of blindfolded and bound Palestinian prisoners.

I also noted how you have again completely ignored the original point being made, about the treatment of Aboriginals as compared with the way Israel treats Palestinians?..... Unless the Federal government invokes Martial law, our Military forces are not even allowed to be used to control civil unrest of any kind.

This reminds me to the Muhammad al-Durrah incident where it was claimed that the boy and father were shot but no blood was found at the scene the same day, it magically appeared the other day. Here the same story, someone is shot in the foot from close range (approx 1 meter) with a, according to doctors you name, lethal bullet. Yet the foot is unharmed. Not one hole in his shoe, no blood to be seen. Remarkably, the crucial moment, the moment he falls to the ground, is not filmed. In fact the one with the white shirt scares more than the "victim". Just as the pictures you post about the "Video: Officer fires tear gas canister at B'Tselem videographer, causing injures." in your post #1558. have you seen that video frame by frame? Picture number 3 is missing. Picture number 4 is from frame 155 (00:07.750). Frame 154 is at 00.07.700, 50 milliseconds earlier and no canister to be seen. Strange. Why? To shorten the video? To reduce bandwith? Then why cut just those few very important milliseconds when they could easaly cut seconds out of the 17.400 seconds long clip. Like from frame 160 (00:08.000) to the end, frame 348 (00:17.400) where nothing is to be seen. it is easier to minipulate a picture than a video. Manipulating a few frames in a row, like inserting a incoming canister, is far harder to do. If it is not done in a very proffessional way you immediately see it's faked.
This is not fake : Reuters - Palestinians Terrorists use UN Ambulance
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRmYYSp0-B8"]Reuters - Palestinians Terrorists use UN Ambulance - YouTube[/ame]
Now you know why IDF soldiers sometimes check ambulances!

Very nice but sadly you will have to try again...
If my history classes are still accurate and my Googling finger is still functional my sources tell me Antiochus VII was a Seleucid leader and oddly enough one of the regions of Seleucid empire was what is now Israel now given that the quote you happily passed on said that "Antiochus VII (Sidetes), granted to Simon Maccabaeus, “the priest and prince of the Jews,” the right of coining money." which if my grasp of the English language is still "Ok" would indicate that Simon Maccabaeus was an underling of Antiochus VII and further to this a simple tap of a few keys tells us that the Seleucid empire practiced Olympianism, Babylonian religion and Zoroastrianism.

The interesting thing about those religions is that none of them are Jewish and none of them are even monotheistic which should indicate just how influential early Judaism was in that it did not even feature as a recorded sect of the Seleucid empire.

So on the whole you coin does nothing for your argument as it does not show a Kingdom of Israel just that the Hasmonean kingdom existed and we all know that was just a few villiages comprising an area about 1/10th the size of current Israel if that.

In fact Wiki has it right here:

I think your Google-finger was a bit short

The dynasty of the Maccabees: 2nd - 1st century BC

One of the sons of Mattathias is Judas, who has the surname Maccabaeus or the Maccabee (it is thought to mean either the 'hammer' of the Seleucids, or the 'appointed one' of God). After a rapid series of victories over Seleucid armies, Judas is able in 165 BC to cleanse the Temple in Jerusalem of Greek abominations. He then rededicates it to the one God - an event celebrated each year in the Jewish festival of Hannukah.
Judas is killed in battle in 160. His brother Jonathan picks up the torch. He is succeeded, after his death in 143, by a third brother, Simon. In 142, after twenty-five years of warfare against the Seleucids, Simon secures a treaty which gives Judah political independence as well as religious freedom.
The people of Judah (or Judaea as the Romans will call it) appoint Simon Maccabaeus political leader and high priest. Both positions are declared hereditary within his family. He therefore becomes the founder of a ruling house sometimes known as the Maccabees but more often called by historians the Hasmonaean dynasty (from Hasmon, a distant ancestor).​

Coin of Alexander Jannaeus, 103-76 CE

Coin of Antigonus, 40-37 CE

Both were rulers of the Hasmonean Kingdom, which was a theocratic monarchy with Judaism as it's religion.

Hasmonean Kingdom - 140 BCE–37 BCE

here's a reply from a reader to the article of "Gates Says Israel Gave In on Saudi Arms After F-35 Pledge"

Cute and entertaining, but Mr, Gates does not have to worry about a family with children in Israel, he lives in the Pacific North West. While he has many answers and delightful quotes, Israelis must be vigil for their own security. he seems to have forgotten the phony promises Israel got from President Eisenhower, 1956, which were -light weight-and could not be honored by president Johnson, 1967, leading to the inevitable, a complete change in the region. A promise was made, to keep the vital waterways to Eilat secure, open to navigation, allowing Israel to receive oil from Iran, Egypt's tyrant arbitrarily closed it. The U.S never took any responsibility for what happened, it flouted its agreements, reneged on its promises , furthermore, warned P.M Eshkol: "Don't you dare to start a war..".this was a Texan who shipped half a million G.I's to fight a mindless war in which 1/10 will return in body bags, for no good reason, and than pretended that Israel was on its own. When the jib-jab with Iraq took place, 1990, Israel was getting showered with Scuds ( Soviet rockets), civilians got killed, property destroyed, and Israel was not even a player. It was told, not to retaliate! All Mr. gates and his associates could do is ship to Israel the ineffective Patriots - complete duds, with U.S operators, pretending to operate a successful anti missile defense, it was a bad nightmare....useless, rockets that could not hit a target, but Israel had to appear thankful. Mr. Gates, could have been a touch more "diplomatique", but as John Bolton said on Fox yesterday-"he was a bureaucrat!" Maybe in the next edition of his memoir, he could do some revision and include a few corrections?​

 

[senojekips]

This reminds me to the Muhammad al-Durrah incident

Ahhhh, another quick change of subject,..... However, I'm extremely glad of that, because we all remember how you were so neatly shot in the @rse over that little debacle. You can make up all the stories you want, or report the Israeli lies (a trait they are well known for) but you can't escape the facts.

The Israelis who regularly locate and murder Palestinian freedom fighters who are doing their best to remain off the radar, can't find a single Palestinian child living within their occupation zones. The Israelis who issue identity papers to every Palestinian man woman and child, despite several searches could not physically find him, or any record of him having survived the incident.

His Father who after being subjected to a barrage of Israeli accusations of lying about the boy's death, authorised the child's disinterment for an autopsy much against the laws of his religion, his Israeli accusers suddenly dropped the case, knowing full well that he was dead and buried in that grave, and that any subsequent autopsy would prove that fact.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All of the above notwithstanding after your pathetic attempt at changing the subject:

I notice how you still have not admitted that Australia's treatment of it's Aboriginal population has no comparison with that of the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians and how you made a complete fool (liar) of yourself,... again, with your deliberate disinformation regarding your evaluation of Israel's lethal steel "rubber bullets".
What you've had another lapse of memory, eh?

Your lies may get older as you vainly attempt to re circulate them, but they certainly get no better..... (cue music: "The march of the Clowns")

 

[MontyB]

Oh by the way I notice Ostrer is now changing his findings to disprove Elhaik's contention that Ashkenazi Jews are Khazars, apparently they are now not Khazars but instead they are genetically European.

Richards and his colleagues analyzed mitochondrial DNA, which is contained in the cytoplasm of the egg and passed down only from the mother, from more than 3,500 people throughout the Near East, the Caucusus and Europe, including Ashkenazi Jews.The team found that four founders were responsible for 40 percent of Ashkenazi mitochondrial DNA, and that all of these founders originated in Europe. The majority of the remaining people could be traced to other European lineages.
All told, more than 80 percent of the maternal lineages of Ashkenazi Jews could be traced to Europe, with only a few lineages originating in the Near East.

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/most...y-europeans-surprising-study-finds-8C11358210



The funny thing about this is that in attempting to discredit Elhaik's work his numbers are horribly and glaringly wrong so I look forward to seeing how he explains the population discrepencies.


So now you have a choice Ashkenazi Jews are either Turks or Europeans but as yet no one can prove they have any connection to the Middle East.

 

[VDKMS]

Ahhhh, another quick change of subject,..... However, I'm extremely glad of that, because we all remember how you were so neatly shot in the @rse over that little debacle. You can make up all the stories you want, or report the Israeli lies (a trait they are well known for) but you can't escape the facts.

The French court contradicts your story. The uncut version shows the boy was still alive and well and you know it.

The Israelis who regularly locate and murder Palestinian freedom fighters who are doing their best to remain off the radar, can't find a single Palestinian child living within their occupation zones. The Israelis who issue identity papers to every Palestinian man woman and child, despite several searches could not physically find him, or any record of him having survived the incident.

The Israelis look for terrorists, not children that were used in a Pallywood movie and was unharmed as shown in the uncut version.

His Father who after being subjected to a barrage of Israeli accusations of lying about the boy's death, authorised the child's disinterment for an autopsy much against the laws of his religion, his Israeli accusers suddenly dropped the case, knowing full well that he was dead and buried in that grave, and that any subsequent autopsy would prove that fact.

Mohammed al-Dura was buried in a funeral attended by masses. However, the child who was buried was brought to Shifa Hospital in the Gaza Strip at 10 A.M., according to the testimony of a doctor who admitted him. The shots at the Netzarim junction began only at 2 P.M., and Mohammed was taken away from the site at 3 P.M. In the photographs shown by a Gaza pathologist, a child who had been hit by bullets is seen, but his injuries are not the sort that Jamal spoke of. While the father says that Mohammed was hit in his right leg, the boy at Shifa was hit in his left leg. A biometric identification expert compared the photograph of the child who was buried and the child at the Netzarim junction, and found that they are different.​

Israel has no jurisdiction in Gaza and you know that. Without the approval of Hamas there will be no autopsy and you know that. Hamas is a radical religious group and digging up the corps for an autopsy is against their belief, they will never give authorization for that and you know that. Otherwise the father would never boast about it and you know that.

All of the above notwithstanding after your pathetic attempt at changing the subject:

I notice how you still have not admitted that Australia's treatment of it's Aboriginal population has no comparison with that of the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians and how you made a complete fool (liar) of yourself,... again, with your deliberate disinformation regarding your evaluation of Israel's lethal steel "rubber bullets".
What you've had another lapse of memory, eh?

Sanctimonious twaddle.

Your lies may get older as you vainly attempt to re circulate them, but they certainly get no better..... (cue music: "The march of the Clowns")

You talk like a Nazi. Lots of words no proof.

Oh by the way I notice Ostrer is now changing his findings to disprove Elhaik's contention that Ashkenazi Jews are Khazars, apparently they are now not Khazars but instead they are genetically European.

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/most...y-europeans-surprising-study-finds-8C11358210

The funny thing about this is that in attempting to discredit Elhaik's work his numbers are horribly and glaringly wrong so I look forward to seeing how he explains the population discrepencies.

So now you have a choice Ashkenazi Jews are either Turks or Europeans but as yet no one can prove they have any connection to the Middle East.

You are not into genealogy do you? In genealogy you research your ancesters in order to find out where you came from. This lineage is paternal, not maternal like in your story.

You are still grasping at straws.

 

[MontyB]

You are not into genealogy do you? In genealogy you research your ancesters in order to find out where you came from. This lineage is paternal, not maternal like in your story.

You are still grasping at straws.

Really paternal you say, mitochondrial DNA is the standard for this process and the preferred method is maternal because almost all human cells contain mitochondria. They provide energy to cells, and they have their own DNA, separate from the DNA that actually makes a person. Mitochondria are not in sperm cells; therefore, they are inherited only from the mother. They record a person's matrilineal heritage.

I would suggest it is you that are running out of straws.

On to the next point...

The Israelis look for terrorists, not children that were used in a Pallywood movie and was unharmed as shown in the uncut version.

Really that is not the conclusion reached in a recent UNICEF report oddly enough titled Children in israeli Military detention,Observations and Recommendations:

Ill-treatment of Palestinian children in the Israeli military detention system appears
to be widespread, systematic and institutionalized. This conclusion is based on the
repeated allegations about such treatment over the past 10 years and the volume,
consistency and persistence of these allegations. The review of cases documented
through the monitoring and reporting mechanism on grave child rights violations,
as well as interviews conducted by UNICEF with Israeli and Palestinian lawyers and
Palestinian children, also support this conclusion.

The pattern of ill-treatment includes the arrests of children at their homes between
midnight and 5:00 am by heavily armed soldiers; the practice of blindfolding children
and tying their hands with plastic ties; physical and verbal abuse during transfer to
an interrogation site, including the use of painful restraints; lack of access to water,
food, toilet facilities and medical care; interrogation using physical violence and
threats; coerced confessions; and lack of access to lawyers or family members during
interrogation.
Treatment inconsistent with child rights continues during court appearances,
including shackling of children; denial of bail and imposition of custodial sentences;
and transfer of children outside occupied Palestinian territory to serve their sentences
inside Israel. The incarceration isolates them from their families and interrupts their
studies.
These practices are in violation of international law that protects all children against
ill-treatment when in contact with law enforcement, military and judicial institutions.
The April 2010 announcement by Israeli military officials of changes to the hand-tying
procedure is a positive development. So too is military order 1676 (September 2011),
which introduced requirements for the police (though not the army) to notify parents
about the arrest of their children and to inform children that they have the right to
consult a lawyer. Further measures should be introduced to ensure the protection of
children under military detention and compliance of the system with international
norms and regulations, as well as to dissipate false allegations of misconduct by the
authorities.

http://www.unicef.org/oPt/UNICEF_oP...ations_and_Recommendations_-_6_March_2013.pdf

 

[senojekips]

The French court contradicts your story. The uncut version shows the boy was still alive and well and you know it.

Rubbish!. As I said "the Israelis accused his parents of lying about the boy's death, knowing that disinterment was against all Muslim beliefs. When the family did eventually agree to have the body exhumed the Israelis who could have quickly and easily proven their case, immediately lost interest, because they did not wish to be shown as having lied about the matter".

This is a well known trait of Hasbara Trolls including yourself. Like the time you stated that "the Palestinians did not deserve a state because they were not willing to fight for it", only a matter of a few posts after complaining about how the same "Palestinian people were always trying to kill Israelis". You are not only a very persistent liar, you are a very poor liar being frequently tripped up by your own inability to remember what you lied about last.

As they say, "If you are going to be a successful liar, you need to have a very good memory" and obviously you do not.

How long was the uncut movie, several hours?..... Because he showed signs of life in a movie covering an hour or so means nothing at all. Not all people die immediately they are shot and you know it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now back to the original subject, regarding the comparison of the way Israelis treat the Palestinians as compared with the way Australia treats our Aboriginals. I notice that you've said nothing about the clearly discernible exit hole in the sole of the shoe belonging to the demonstrator deliberately shot in the foot by the IDF, or your attempts at lying about the event. The very fact that it was a 15mm diameter steel projectile making the injury even worse than that of a 5.56mm ball round.

Your deliberate lying about this matter having been clearly demonstrated by the fact that having admitted going through the video frame by frame you never admitted that you saw the exit hole in the victims shoe, and kept on about how there was a clear picture showing no injury was sustained when only seconds later there is a 6 second long view clearly showing the exit hole in the victim's shoe. You further compounded that lie with your statement

the way the soldier holds the weapon when fired he can impossible hit the "demonstrator's" foot which B’Tselem said was a rubber coated metal bullet. Under the Israeli forces’ rules of engagement, rubber bullets are to be used only from a distance of 50 metres or more, to avoid piercing the skin. This was from 1 meter and his foot did not show any signs of injury. Like always with such videos (and photos) it is shot in close up style and important pieces are missing. You do not see the "demonstrator" fall. (What has this to do with it)? More useless padding
Pallywood again? More useless lies.
They propably fired to scare him without hitting the "victim".

All blatant and deliberate lies by you.
When finally confronted with both video evidence and the fact that the criminals were both charged and found guilty, the best you can do to answer my question regarding comparative treatment is to state that it is all "Sanctimonious Twaddle", You are again shown to be a knowingly deliberate and shameless liar , to the extent that would clearly show that there is nothing you have said anywhere that has the slightest credibility. What I'm enjoying most is that, the longer you argue the more lies I am finding in your story.

You are clearly a pathological liar and all I can say is, "Thank f*ck, that you are not very good at it".

 

[MontyB]

Here is an interesting write up by a pro-Israel writer which goes toward the original question asked...

Boycotts are a sign of Israel’s isolation
By Richard Cohen, Published: January 14


Yet another academic group is mulling censuring Israel. This time it is the Modern Language Association. Just recently, it was the American Studies Association , which called for a boycott of Israeli academic institutions. Before that, similar resolutions were passed by European academic associations, much concerned with Israel’s occupation of the West Bank. These are asinine movements in all but one respect: They tell Israel what it needs to hear.
As many American academics have pointed out, these resolutions vitiate academic freedom, which, as it happens, abounds on Israeli campuses but not on those of its neighbors — lovely Syria, for instance. The illogical logic of the boycotters prompted protests from many colleges and universities, some of which noted that Israeli campuses are precisely where the American boycotters are likely to meet their ideological soulmates. They are riddled with moderates and liberals.



Others have pointed out that the boycott promoters scanned the world and somehow overlooked Russia, China, Cuba and similar nations where the occasionally rambunctious professor is granted tenure behind bars. There is scant academic freedom in the Arab world, — freedom of any kind, actually — yet it escapes the boycott movement. Can the professors stir themselves about the plight of women in Saudi Arabia? Apparently not.

For these and other reasons, the boycott movement is absurd and makes the various academics seem detached from the real world. At the same time, they are paying Israel a backhanded compliment. They know that China, for example, would ignore a boycott launched by the American Studies Association. China is a country, after all, that locks up its dissident academics and brings out tanks to deal with protesting students.
Israel is a different matter. Exactly because it is a liberal, Western state, ruled by law and not by whim, it can be pressured. It wants to belong to the worldwide academic community, and, of course, it should.
What matters most about the boycotts is what they represent — widespread and growing antipathy toward the Jewish state.



It’s facile to attribute this entirely to anti-Semitism, although it surely lurks here and there. But in the United States at least, anti-Semitism is a spent force — witness the appointment of the third Jew in a row to head the Federal Reserve. A generation ago, more than a few commentators would have mentioned the International Jewish Conspiracy or some such thing. That now exists only in the rattled brain of a Louis Farrakhan.


Nonetheless, there is a special, worrisome fury directed at Israel. I hear it from people who are not in any way anti-Semitic. (I would hear more of it if many people were not afraid of being labeled anti-Semitic.) Sometimes I think the anger comes from having repressed criticism of Israel lest it offend. Sooner or later, though, the emotions come spilling out.


Whatever the cause, the fact remains that Israel’s occasionally harsh occupation of the West Bank has put the country on the defensive. One only had to see the extraordinary documentary “The Gatekeepers,” in which six former heads of the internal security service, Shin Bet , discuss — and rue — the methods they used to maintain control of the West Bank, to see what I mean. This is a film — academics, take note — that could have been made only in Israel. That’s good. But what it says . . . that’s bad.


There is fault here to share. Israel’s enemies have been often recalcitrant, sometimes violent. Indeed, Israel holds the West Bank because of a war started by Egypt, Syria and Jordan. To abandon it entails a risk. Will it become, as Gaza has, a staging area for terrorism — a daily barrage of rockets? This is not some remote concern. Hezbollah is in the north, Hamas in the south. The neighborhood grows ever more dangerous. Parents fret.


I had lunch with Ariel Sharon about a month before he suffered the stroke that incapacitated him and led to his death Saturday . He strongly suggested that he would do in the West Bank what he had done in Gaza — pursue some sort of withdrawal. The details were murky, but his general intentions were not. Sharon realized that Israel faced a demographic nightmare — too many Palestinians, too few Jews — and maybe also he realized that the occupation was tarnishing one of the 20th century’s resplendent achievements, the creation of a nation from the ashes of Auschwitz. He did not say.


The boycott resolutions are coldly barren of historical understanding or empathy, and they are painful to read. But what they say is not as important as the sound they make. The Israel I love is increasingly hated.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...241b30-7c7f-11e3-93c1-0e888170b723_story.html



There are currently attempts to punish the American Studies Association for its boycott but the reality is even should they succeed in forcing people to deal with Israel it still will not change the growing dislike of Israel in fact it will only make it worse.

No matter how you look at it VD you are backing a losing cause because the weight of public opinion is shifting and no amount of fact twisting or denial will change that, what you will be left with is a country with the popularity and economy of North Korea surrounded by wealthy, hostile neighbours and only a waning superpower to hide behind, essentially I believe that unless you change paths there is only destruction and isolation to look forward to.

 

[senojekips]

You talk like a Nazi. Lots of words no proof.

It's not about talk,... if the worst the Israelis did was talk like Nazis there would be no problem. What the problem is, is that they and their supporters (you) act like Nazis. There is a huge difference.

You are not into genealogy do you? In genealogy you research your ancesters in order to find out where you came from. This lineage is paternal, not maternal like in your story.

You are still grasping at straws.

Having been a member of the Australian Jewish Genealogical Society for nearly 23 years, I find your statement to be really odd, especially with "Jewishness" allegedly being determined along the maternal lines. To this end Jews even have their own Genealogy software called DoroTree which follows the matrilineal line rather than the patrilineal.

About Matrilineal Descent Many people have asked me why traditional Judaism uses matrilineal descent to determine Jewish status, when in all other things (tribal affiliation, priestly status, royalty, etc.) we use patrilineal descent.

 

[VDKMS]

Rubbish!. As I said "the Israelis accused his parents of lying about the boy's death, knowing that disinterment was against all Muslim beliefs. When the family did eventually agree to have the body exhumed the Israelis who could have quickly and easily proven their case, immediately lost interest, because they did not wish to be shown as having lied about the matter".

Do you really think that Hamas would give permission to Jews to dig up a muslim corps??? You really avoid the legal procedures here. You also completely ignored the fact that "the boy" was admitted to the hospital before the "fight" began. I know that Pallywood ambulances are very fast, within seconds of being wounded, but that they get you to the hospital before being shot is a little bit over the top.

This is a well known trait of Hasbara Trolls including yourself. Like the time you stated that "the Palestinians did not deserve a state because they were not willing to fight for it", only a matter of a few posts after complaining about how the same "Palestinian people were always trying to kill Israelis". You are not only a very persistent liar, you are a very poor liar being frequently tripped up by your own inability to remember what you lied about last.

Again you show your lack of knowledge about the conflict. Killing of Jews has nothing to de with "Palestine" but with religion. You propably do not even know what the meaning of throwing rocks at Jews is. It's an old age custom of bigotry in Islam. Boys are teached to do that. "Palestinians" never rised to fight for an indipendent "Palestine". Not under Roman, Christian, Muslim, Turkish nor British Mandate rule. They want the Jews out. An independent Palestine is only a step towards the destruction of Israel. Why else would they shout ”khaybar khaybar ya yahud, jaish Muhammad sa ya'ud.“?

As they say, "If you are going to be a successful liar, you need to have a very good memory" and obviously you do not.

How long was the uncut movie, several hours?..... Because he showed signs of life in a movie covering an hour or so means nothing at all. Not all people die immediately they are shot and you know it.

?????????? You do not know how long it was? Hours?? The uncut version shown to the French court was exactly 18min22sec. Did not immediately died? At the end of the novie that went viral worldwide the reporter clearly said that the boy was dead. When pressed why it was cut at the end the reporter stubbornly kept saying that it was to horrible to be shown so everyone thought the boy was shot to pieces, until shown at the French court. The horrible thing was that the boy lift his arm and looked at the camera! He also said that the Israelis fired 400 rounds at the boy and his father but there were not even 10 bullet impacts and according to a French ballistic expert those impacts couldn't have come from the Israeli side.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now back to the original subject, regarding the comparison of the way Israelis treat the Palestinians as compared with the way Australia treats our Aboriginals. I notice that you've said nothing about the clearly discernible exit hole in the sole of the shoe belonging to the demonstrator deliberately shot in the foot by the IDF, or your attempts at lying about the event. The very fact that it was a 15mm diameter steel projectile making the injury even worse than that of a 5.56mm ball round.

You do not even look at what the "victim" himself has said. He had a blister on his toe!!!

Your deliberate lying about this matter having been clearly demonstrated by the fact that having admitted going through the video frame by frame you never admitted that you saw the exit hole in the victims shoe, and kept on about how there was a clear picture showing no injury was sustained when only seconds later there is a 6 second long view clearly showing the exit hole in the victim's shoe. You further compounded that lie with your statement All blatant and deliberate lies by you.
When finally confronted with both video evidence and the fact that the criminals were both charged and found guilty, the best you can do to answer my question regarding comparative treatment is to state that it is all "Sanctimonious Twaddle", You are again shown to be a knowingly deliberate and shameless liar , to the extent that would clearly show that there is nothing you have said anywhere that has the slightest credibility. What I'm enjoying most is that, the longer you argue the more lies I am finding in your story.

Don't make me laugh! An exit hole in his shoe! That guy did not even bleed. A 15mm diameter steel projectile shot through the foot and the guy has only blister on his toe! And you are saying I'm lying??

You are clearly a pathological liar and all I can say is, "Thank f*ck, that you are not very good at it".

Your rambling about the exit hole in his shoe is a lie, but I know that you do not care much about the truth.

Having been a member of the Australian Jewish Genealogical Society for nearly 23 years, I find your statement to be really odd, especially with "Jewishness" allegedly being determined along the maternal lines. To this end Jews even have their own Genealogy software called DoroTree which follows the matrilineal line rather than the patrilineal.

About Matrilineal Descent
Many people have asked why traditional Judaism uses matrilineal descent to determine Jewish status, when in all other things (tribal affiliation, priestly status, royalty, etc.) patrilineal descent is used.

The Torah does not specifically state anywhere that matrilineal descent should be used; however, there are several passages in the Torah where it is understood that the child of a Jewish woman and a non-Jewish man is a Jew, and several other passages where it is understood that the child of a non-Jewish woman and a Jewish man is not a Jew.

Here is an interesting write up by a pro-Israel writer which goes toward the original question asked...

Boycotts are a sign of Israel’s isolation
By Richard Cohen, Published: January 14

Boycotts of the Jews. Where did I hear that before? Oh yes, the SA of pre Nazi Germany!
Boycotting the Israel Boycotters

 

[senojekips]

Your history as a deliberate liar has been clearly demonstrated on this forum, Tell me why anyone would believe anything you say at all.

Do you really think that Hamas would give permission to Jews to dig up a muslim corps??? You really avoid the legal procedures here. You also completely ignored the fact that "the boy" was admitted to the hospital before the "fight" began. I know that Pallywood ambulances are very fast, within seconds of being wounded, but that they get you to the hospital before being shot is a little bit over the top.

Obviously a figment of the Israeli Hasbara Department as we clearly see him in the video. I'd like you to quote a credible source showing that the disinterment was stopped by Hamas, (or is this another of your miraculous "predictions" like being able to make a complete medical diagnosis of a wound to the foot from a frame of film so blurry that the sole of the shoe can barely be discerned). Not to mention the exit hole clearly visible only a few seconds later. You are making this up as you go along aren't you?
I've never known another occasion where Israel has allowed a decision by Hamas to affect what they do.

Again you show your lack of knowledge about the conflict. Killing of Jews has nothing to de with "Palestine" but with religion. Disproven several times

You propably do not even know what the meaning of throwing rocks at Jews is. It's an old age custom of bigotry in Islam. Boys are teached to do that. "Palestinians" never rised to fight for an indipendent "Palestine". Not under Roman, Christian, Muslim, Turkish nor British Mandate rule. They want the Jews out. An independent Palestine is only a step towards the destruction of Israel. Why else would they shout ”khaybar khaybar ya yahud, jaish Muhammad sa ya'ud.“?

An excellent answer, but how unfortunate that it has absolutely nothing to do with my statement. I know you realise that I barely read your answers, but I read them well enough to see when you are just padding out a heap of rubbish to make it look like you've answered.

?????????? You do not know how long it was? Hours?? The uncut version shown to the French court was exactly 18min22sec. Did not immediately died? At the end of the novie that went viral worldwide the reporter clearly said that the boy was dead. When pressed why it was cut at the end the reporter stubbornly kept saying that it was to horrible to be shown so everyone thought the boy was shot to pieces, until shown at the French court. The horrible thing was that the boy lift his arm and looked at the camera! He also said that the Israelis fired 400 rounds at the boy and his father but there were not even 10 bullet impacts and according to a French ballistic expert those impacts couldn't have come from the Israeli side.

All "opinions" and nothing to do with the fact that the boy is obviously dead, and miraculously cannot be located by the State that issues all Palestinian Identity papers and has no difficulty locating anyone else, also having been given the opportunity to clear their name the Israelis declined knowing full well that an autopsy would show them to be liars.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
You do not even look at what the "victim" himself has said. He had a blister on his toe!!!

Other than the fact that a blister on the toe would not have caused the reaction from the victim seen in the video, or the clearly visible exit hole in the sole of his shoe. It is highly ridiculous to suggest that a Steel "rubber bullet known to be able to penetrate the skull and break bones at ranges exceeding 40 metres could only cause a blister on a toe at a range of about one metre. Especially when the exit hole is in the middle of the foot, nowhere near the toes. Obviously Israeli disinformation, we all know how much of that there is,... they even have a Government Department put in place specifically for the purpose.

Don't make me laugh! An exit hole in his shoe! That guy did not even bleed. A 15mm diameter steel projectile shot through the foot and the guy has only blister on his toe! And you are saying I'm lying??

Yep, without a doubt you are certainly lying and the video evidence shows you are lying. You were lying when you made your miraculous medical diagnosis about the wound that entered from the upper side of the victims foot, from a blurry image of the sole of his shoe, you were lying when you stated that you had looked at the video frame by frame and you deliberately omitted mentioning the exit hole which can be clearly seen in the sole of the victims shoe.

In fact, I think that this would be a good time for you to explain to everyone how you made this diagnosis that the victim was uninjured from the image you quoted

Your rambling about the exit hole in his shoe is a lie, but I know that you do not care much about the truth.

Would you care to explain how your "miraculous" diagnosis made from a single blurry image of the sole of a man's shoe is accurate, yet the clearly visible exit hole visible for a full six seconds, is a lie? Once again, you are making this up as you go along, a documented trait of pathological liars

The Torah does not specifically state anywhere that matrilineal descent should be used; however, there are several passages in the Torah where it is understood that the child of a Jewish woman and a non-Jewish man is a Jew, and several other passages where it is understood that the child of a non-Jewish woman and a Jewish man is not a Jew.

I never stated it was said in the Torah.

I said that the maternal line is the method used by Jews to determine "Jewishness" implying that the study of mitochondrial DNA would and should be the way to research descent or ancestry. The fact that the results have been shown to be "highly suspect" in work by Ostrer does not allow you to just change the rules to suit your story.

 

[MontyB]

Funny you should mention that, it is an interesting argument about Nazi Germany using the SA to enforce the current rules and prevent honest businessmen continuing to do what they do best.

I would suggest that it parallels well with the situation in which AIPAC has sent its SA to legislate against the ASA's right to boycott Israeli institutions wouldnt you say.

Klein, Hikind Announce New Legislation Aimed at Cutting Off Taxpayer Dollars to Colleges and Universities that Support Boycott


News from Senator Jeffrey D. Klein and Assemblyman Dov Hikind


For Immediate Release: December 27, 2013

Contacts for Senator Klein: Eric Soufer, Anna Durrett, Jason Elan 718-822-2049
Contact for Assemblyman Hikind: Yehudah Meth 718-853-9616

Senator Klein, Assemblyman Hikind Denounce American Studies Association Boycott of Israel; Announce New Legislation Aimed at Cutting Off Taxpayer Dollars to Colleges and Universities that Support Boycott​

December 27, 2013 - In the wake of the American Studies Association's (ASA) targeted and singular boycott of Israeli universities, State Senate Co-Leader Jeff Klein (D-Bronx/Westchester) and Assemblyman Dov Hikind (D-Brooklyn) announced plans to introduce legislation that would cut-off state aid to public and private universities who participate in organizations which, like the ASA, discriminate against countries like Israel. The legislation gives colleges and universities 30 days to withdraw their support from organizations that boycott countries like Israel or else lose state funding and bonding privileges.


State Senator Jeff Klein and Assemblyman Dov Hikind said: “The ASA's boycott of Israel is not only a direct violation of New York State’s Human Rights Act, it's a slap in the face to Jews and supporters of Israel everywhere. Make no mistake: the ASA's boycott is targeted discrimination against Israel that betrays the values of academic freedom that we hold dear. We cannot encourage our colleges and universities to engage in this type of discrimination against Israel. New Yorkers expect us to reject discrimination in every form, and cutting off the state spigot is the best way of doing that. ”


Under the legislation, schools would also be required to immediately suspend the use of any state resources in support of organizations like the ASA. The legislation would also prohibit employees of New York State's public universities from participating in conferences or activities sponsored by groups that participate in discriminatory boycotts like the ASA. Under the legislation, schools could still join and support academic organization that boycott academic institutions located in countries listed under federal law as state sponsors of terrorism



The lawmakers will introduce their legislation at the state of the 2014 legislation session in January.

http://dovhikind.blogspot.co.nz/2013/12/klein-hikind-announce-new-legislation.html

However as I understand it the SA led an ever increasing number of attacks on Jewish business, synagogues, properties and defaced, burnt and looted many such structures, isnt it a good thing our fathers and grandfathers went to war to stop that sort of thing from happening.

hmmmm.....

Palestinian mosque set on fire in suspected hate crime
Only door damaged; Graffiti on mosque reads: 'Arabs out'. By Chaim Levinson, Gili Cohen and Jack Khoury | Jan. 15, 2014 | 8:37 AM

Arson attack on Palestinian mosque in West Bank, Jan 15, 2013.
Photo by Courtesy: Rabbis for Human Rights

Vandals set fire to a mosque early Wednesday morning in the Palestinian village Deir Istiya in the northern West Bank, in a suspected hate crime by Jewish vandals. Light damage was caused to the door of the mosque as the fire did not spread.
Palestinian residents report graffiti sprayed on the mosque with the messages: "Arabs out, "Hi from Qusra' and "Revenge for spilled blood in Qusra."

The Israel Defense Forces responded in a statement that it is considers the incident as severe. "Such acts divert our attention from their primary mission, which is to combat terror, and undermine the relative stability in the area.

Last week, a group of more than 10 settlers from the outpost of Esh Kodesh, in the Nablus area, were apprehended and beaten by Palestinian villagers after trespassing on their land in Qusra. The settlers were later handed over to the Israel Defense Forces.

The annual rate of Israeli settler attacks against Palestinians has almost quadrupled in eight years, UN figures show. There have been 2,100 such attacks since 2006, the year the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) started counting. The annual totals are up from 115 in 2006 to 399 in 2013.



http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/1.568700



Tell the boys at head office to send better trolls you really could use some help here.

 

[BritinBritain]

Do you really think that Hamas would give permission to Jews to dig up a muslim corps??? You really avoid the legal procedures here. You also completely ignored the fact that "the boy" was admitted to the hospital before the "fight" began. I know that Pallywood ambulances are very fast, within seconds of being wounded, but that they get you to the hospital before being shot is a little bit over the top.



Again you show your lack of knowledge about the conflict. Killing of Jews has nothing to de with "Palestine" but with religion. You propably do not even know what the meaning of throwing rocks at Jews is. It's an old age custom of bigotry in Islam. Boys are teached to do that. "Palestinians" never rised to fight for an indipendent "Palestine". Not under Roman, Christian, Muslim, Turkish nor British Mandate rule. They want the Jews out. An independent Palestine is only a step towards the destruction of Israel. Why else would they shout ”khaybar khaybar ya yahud, jaish Muhammad sa ya'ud.“?



?????????? You do not know how long it was? Hours?? The uncut version shown to the French court was exactly 18min22sec. Did not immediately died? At the end of the novie that went viral worldwide the reporter clearly said that the boy was dead. When pressed why it was cut at the end the reporter stubbornly kept saying that it was to horrible to be shown so everyone thought the boy was shot to pieces, until shown at the French court. The horrible thing was that the boy lift his arm and looked at the camera! He also said that the Israelis fired 400 rounds at the boy and his father but there were not even 10 bullet impacts and according to a French ballistic expert those impacts couldn't have come from the Israeli side.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


You do not even look at what the "victim" himself has said. He had a blister on his toe!!!



Don't make me laugh! An exit hole in his shoe! That guy did not even bleed. A 15mm diameter steel projectile shot through the foot and the guy has only blister on his toe! And you are saying I'm lying??



Your rambling about the exit hole in his shoe is a lie, but I know that you do not care much about the truth.



About Matrilineal Descent
Many people have asked why traditional Judaism uses matrilineal descent to determine Jewish status, when in all other things (tribal affiliation, priestly status, royalty, etc.) patrilineal descent is used.

The Torah does not specifically state anywhere that matrilineal descent should be used; however, there are several passages in the Torah where it is understood that the child of a Jewish woman and a non-Jewish man is a Jew, and several other passages where it is understood that the child of a non-Jewish woman and a Jewish man is not a Jew.



Boycotts of the Jews. Where did I hear that before? Oh yes, the SA of pre Nazi Germany!
Boycotting the Israel Boycotters

Yes I can quote VD's posts

 

[senojekips]

Yes I can quote VD's posts

It's only large posts I'm having problems quoting regardless of who posts them. However I'm becoming convinced that the problem is at my end although changing to the latest Version of Internet explorer never helped.

I'll keep plugging away. The method that I'm using at the moment works OK.

 

[VDKMS]

Your history as a deliberate liar has been clearly demonstrated on this forum, Tell me why anyone would believe anything you say at all.

left out by me due to post message too long

Obviously a figment of the Israeli Hasbara Department as we clearly see him in the video. I'd like you to quote a credible source showing that the disinterment was stopped by Hamas, (or is this another of your miraculous "predictions" like being able to make a complete medical diagnosis of a wound to the foot from a frame of film so blurry that the sole of the shoe can barely be discerned). Not to mention the exit hole clearly visible only a few seconds later. You are making this up as you go along aren't you?
I've never known another occasion where Israel has allowed a decision by Hamas to affect what they do.

Again you show your lack of knowledge about the conflict. Killing of Jews has nothing to de with "Palestine" but with religion. Disproven several times

You propably do not even know what the meaning of throwing rocks at Jews is. It's an old age custom of bigotry in Islam. Boys are teached to do that. "Palestinians" never rised to fight for an indipendent "Palestine". Not under Roman, Christian, Muslim, Turkish nor British Mandate rule. They want the Jews out. An independent Palestine is only a step towards the destruction of Israel. Why else would they shout ”khaybar khaybar ya yahud, jaish Muhammad sa ya'ud.“?

An excellent answer, but how unfortunate that it has absolutely nothing to do with my statement. I know you realise that I barely read your answers, but I read them well enough to see when you are just padding out a heap of rubbish to make it look like you've answered.

?????????? You do not know how long it was? Hours?? The uncut version shown to the French court was exactly 18min22sec. Did not immediately died? At the end of the novie that went viral worldwide the reporter clearly said that the boy was dead. When pressed why it was cut at the end the reporter stubbornly kept saying that it was to horrible to be shown so everyone thought the boy was shot to pieces, until shown at the French court. The horrible thing was that the boy lift his arm and looked at the camera! He also said that the Israelis fired 400 rounds at the boy and his father but there were not even 10 bullet impacts and according to a French ballistic expert those impacts couldn't have come from the Israeli side.

All "opinions" and nothing to do with the fact that the boy is obviously dead, and miraculously cannot be located by the State that issues all Palestinian Identity papers and has no difficulty locating anyone else, also having been given the opportunity to clear their name the Israelis declined knowing full well that an autopsy would show them to be liars.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
You do not even look at what the "victim" himself has said. He had a blister on his toe!!!

Other than the fact that a blister on the toe would not have caused the reaction from the victim seen in the video, or the clearly visible exit hole in the sole of his shoe. It is highly ridiculous to suggest that a Steel "rubber bullet known to be able to penetrate the skull and break bones at ranges exceeding 40 metres could only cause a blister on a toe at a range of about one metre. Especially when the exit hole is in the middle of the foot, nowhere near the toes. Obviously Israeli disinformation, we all know how much of that there is,... they even have a Government Department put in place specifically for the purpose.

Don't make me laugh! An exit hole in his shoe! That guy did not even bleed. A 15mm diameter steel projectile shot through the foot and the guy has only blister on his toe! And you are saying I'm lying??

Yep, without a doubt you are certainly lying and the video evidence shows you are lying. You were lying when you made your miraculous medical diagnosis about the wound that entered from the upper side of the victims foot, from a blurry image of the sole of his shoe, you were lying when you stated that you had looked at the video frame by frame and you deliberately omitted mentioning the exit hole which can be clearly seen in the sole of the victims shoe.

In fact, I think that this would be a good time for you to explain to everyone how you made this diagnosis that the victim was uninjured from the image you quoted

Your rambling about the exit hole in his shoe is a lie, but I know that you do not care much about the truth.

Would you care to explain how your "miraculous" diagnosis made from a single blurry image of the sole of a man's shoe is accurate, yet the clearly visible exit hole visible for a full six seconds, is a lie? Once again, you are making this up as you go along, a documented trait of pathological liars

The Torah does not specifically state anywhere that matrilineal descent should be used; however, there are several passages in the Torah where it is understood that the child of a Jewish woman and a non-Jewish man is a Jew, and several other passages where it is understood that the child of a non-Jewish woman and a Jewish man is not a Jew.

I never stated it was said in the Torah.

I said that the maternal line is the method used by Jews to determine "Jewishness" implying that the study of mitochondrial DNA would and should be the way to research descent or ancestry. The fact that the results have been shown to be "highly suspect" in work by Ostrer does not allow you to just change the rules to suit your story.

What a messy answer. Again a lot of blablabla and your usual "evidence" like "Disproven several times" , you barely read my (and others) posts that you don't like, yet you claim what I (we) said is not true. You weren't drinking again were you?

An excellent answer, but how unfortunate that it has absolutely nothing to do with my statement.

Of course it has nothing to do with your statement because your statement is flat out wrong.

All "opinions" and nothing to do with the fact that the boy was dead

Ever seen a dead boy lift his arm and look to a camera? You never looked at the uncut video did you?

Other than the fact that a blister on the toe would not have caused the reaction from the victim seen in the video, or the clearly visible exit hole in the sole of his shoe. It is highly ridiculous to suggest that a Steel "rubber bullet known to be able to penetrate the skull and break bones at ranges exceeding 40 metres could only cause a blister on a toe at a range of about one metre. Especially when the exit hole is in the middle of the foot, nowhere near the toes. Obviously Israeli disinformation, we all know how much of that there is,... they even have a Government Department put in place specifically for the purpose.

Yep, without a doubt you are certainly lying and the video evidence shows you are lying. You were lying when you made your miraculous medical diagnosis about the wound that entered from the upper side of the victims foot, from a blurry image of the sole of his shoe, you were lying when you stated that you had looked at the video frame by frame and you deliberately omitted mentioning the exit hole which can be clearly seen in the sole of the victims shoe.

In fact, I think that this would be a good time for you to explain to everyone how you made this diagnosis that the victim was uninjured from the image you quoted

Same answer as in post About Rubber bullets, pros, cons, and
Seno, you are making a fool of yourself. You made a mistake but are to stubborn to admit it. That hole, which is not always seen on the video, can not come from a steel bullet that penetrated his foot. There's no blood to be seen. If he was shot like you said he was he would be crippled for the rest of his life. You see things that you want to see, not what is actually there.

Originally Posted by The Guardian
The shooting took place on July 7 this year during PROTESTS against the continued construction of Israel's West Bank barrier. A bystander's video was released by the Israeli human rights group B'Tselem.

The article you quote from the Guardian can be read here: Israeli soldiers charged over shooting of Palestinian prisoner. I doubt if you read it, because this comes from the same article:

Rahmeh, one of several dozen Palestinians who had been throwing stones at soldiers, suffered a bruised toe.​

I have another one, from your beloved Palestinians: Palestine: Information with Provenance (PIWP database)

The Palestinian man, Ashraf Abu Rahmeh, said yesterday he was injured in his left toe and treated at the scene. During an interview, Abu Rahmeh, 27, took off his shoe and showed a large blister on his toe, with bruising underneath. He said for several days after the shooting, the toe was swollen.​