So why do people hate Israel? - Page 55




 
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April 15th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Follow up

The Jerusalem Post - April 9 2012

As goes Migron, so goes Judea and Samaria

By JOSH HASTEN0

I fear that under our current leadership all of these communities are susceptible to dismantlement down the road.


Photo: Marc Israel Sellem

The government recently decided to back the High Court of Justice ruling to evacuate the community of Migron by August 1, 2012. Per an agreement facilitated between Minister Bennie Begin and the residents of Migron, the community will be re-located just 2 km. away from its current site.

The Court’s rationale for tearing down a Jewish community over the so-called Green Line only to rebuild it almost literally just down the road is that the land on which Migron stands is, according to a 2006 petition filed by Peace Now, privately owned Arab land.

The ruling ignores the fact that Migron was established with government support to the tune of NIS 4.3 million, provided by the Housing Ministry a decade ago. The ruling also ignores that according to Migron residents, they have yet to see reliable evidence in court that Arabs own the land.

Gidon Rosenfeld, who lives with his family in Migron, says “the area was abandoned State Land and therefore it should be permissible for the residents to remain in their homes.”

Community spokesman Itai Chemo concurs that proof of Arab ownership doesn’t exist, and says that Peace Now filed their petition because he says in their view “all Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria are obstacles to the establishment of Palestinian state.”

In fact it is Peace Now’s reaction to the ruling which proves that Chemo is on target. While the organization celebrated the court’s order to move the community, executive director Yariv Oppenheimer told this newspaper that “he hoped the government would change its mind with regard to authorizing new Migron homes near the Psagot winery.”

Since there is zero doubt that the winery is on state land, the fact that Oppenheimer is against re-establishing the homes there shows that the case of Migron is in fact not a story of he said, she said, in regard to a specific plot of land, but a symbol whose fate is tied to fate of the future of every Jewish home in every community throughout Judea and Samaria.

That then-Opposition head Tzipi Livni (recently defeated in her party primary), like Oppenheimer, also is against rebuilding Migron, since she says it is immoral to move families to a new location only to evacuate them in a future peace deal with the Palestinians, confirms this very sad truth.

On the surface it might seem that Livni is the ultimate humanitarian whose only concern minimizing the trauma suffered by these loyal Israeli citizens. But if that were the case, she would have been an adamant opponent of the near-sighted 2005 Gaza expulsion, in which some families who had arrived in Gaza after being kicked out of Yamit, were also forced to move a second time around.

The truth is, though, that Livni is unabashedly in favor of evacuating communities in Judea and Samaria as part of the nearly 20- year old failed “peace process,” which has yet to bare any signs of true peace.

It’s important to remember that Migron and the other communities in the Binyamin area located along route 60 including Beit El, Ofra, Eli, Shilo are all located on the other (eastern) side of the security fence. Thus I fear that without doubt under our current leadership all of these communities are susceptible to dismantlement down the road.

It makes no difference that thousands of Jewish families live in these communities, while Migron is only home to 60 families. In the end, in the view of those who want to implement a racist policy of “no Jews allowed,” it’s not about numbers, it’s about location.

Since former prime minister Ariel Sharon built the fence, government officials have always differentiated between Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria, dubbing towns west of the fence “consensus” communities, while the fate of those on the eastern side always seemed up in the air.

But like Migron located to the east, residents to the west should also be concerned.

Simply listening to what our so-called peace partners in the Palestinian Authority are saying makes it crystal clear, as they have never differentiated between places like Ma’ale Adumim, Gush Etzion, or Yitzhar and Har Bracha. They are all referred to as being “illegal settlements” and therefore are all seen as belonging to a future Palestinian state.

The eastern (and northern, and southern) parts of Jerusalem fit into that category as well. In other words, the reality is that they will never accept any Israeli offer which includes even one so-called “settlement,” thus proving that negotiations with the PA are futile.

While Sharon backtracked from his well-known statement that “as goes Netzarim, so goes Tel Aviv,” in order to implement his disengagement plan debacle, it’s time for Israelis to realize, “as goes Migron, so goes all of Judea and Samaria,” and eventually the rest of the country.
April 15th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
I love the piece that says "proof of Arab ownership does not exist" LOL

Isn't it remarkable that the Israelis say that they recognise their settlements are illegal, yet the first to be destroyed is the home of an Arab who actually owns the land occupied by Israel?
Quote:
It is a basic legal principle that military action and occupation must never lead to interference with the right to self-determination of the occupied people (see Point #7), or to significant changes in the demographics or legal structures of the occupied lands (see Point #3), which would by definition lead to interference with the right of the occupied people to self-determination - to control over their own lands and infrastructure and economy and society, and their progress and direction.
April 16th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
I love the piece that says "proof of Arab ownership does not exist" LOL

Isn't it remarkable that the Israelis say that they recognise their settlements are illegal, yet the first to be destroyed is the home of an Arab who actually owns the land occupied by Israel?
How can you know wether proof of ownership is there or not. If the Arab has the proof of ownership he only has to go to court with the legal documents to reclaim his land. Very simple. If he has no legal documents it's not his land. If he lost them then he must find where his land was registerd and ask for a copy.

Israel does not say that their settlements are illegal but that some settlements are illegal. Houses or other structures build without a permit are illegal, wether from Palestinians or Israelis. In Belgium there were some luxery houses demolished because there was no permission to build it.
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April 17th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
How can you know wether proof of ownership is there or not. If the Arab has the proof of ownership he only has to go to court with the legal documents to reclaim his land. Very simple. If he has no legal documents it's not his land. If he lost them then he must find where his land was registerd and ask for a copy.

Israel does not say that their settlements are illegal but that some settlements are illegal. Houses or other structures build without a permit are illegal, wether from Palestinians or Israelis. In Belgium there were some luxery houses demolished because there was no permission to build it.
No one cares what Israel says as their opinion holds about as much credibility as did that of Goebbels regarding the legality of Nazi policy. All Israeli settlements on Palestinian land are illegal. What justice could any Arab expect before an Israeli court, a state that condones the denial of basic human rights to Arabs, actively supports ethnic cleansing and tacitly approves of their disenfranchisement and murder by the IDF and "settlers". (Video evidence has already been posted).

Ownership is not defined by documentation as the land has been under occupiers for centuries. e.g. Ownership papers issued under the Ottoman Empire is null and void, the people who have lived on and worked the land continuously for centuries are the recognised owners. Remember?....
Quote:
  • As per International Law -
    • UN Charter, article 2, para. 4 (1945) (full text) (specific article - see below)
    • Declaration On Principles Of International Law Concerning Friendly Relations And Co-Operation Among States In Accordance With The Charter Of The United Nations (1970), Principle 1 (full text) (specific article - see below)
    • Hague Regulations IV (1907), articles 43 & 55 (full text) (specific articles - see below)
    • Geneva Conventions IV (1949), article 47 & 54 (full text) (specific articles - see below)
  • Israeli Violations -
    • 1. Israeli illegal acquisition of land by force in 1948, and illegal annexation of land occuppied in 1967 (more details).
    • 2. Israeli occupation appears to be illegal because it is not purely self-defensive (more details).
April 17th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
No one cares what Israel says as their opinion holds about as much credibility as did that of Goebbels regarding the legality of Nazi policy. All Israeli settlements on Palestinian land are illegal. What justice could any Arab expect before an Israeli court, a state that condones the denial of basic human rights to Arabs, actively supports ethnic cleansing and tacitly approves of their disenfranchisement and murder by the IDF and "settlers". (Video evidence has already been posted).
Correction, you don't care. If you like it or not but Israel is still the only true democracy in the Arab world.
I already gave proof that the Israeli courts do work for Arabs too.
About those video's, how many are fake?

Quote:
Ownership is not defined by documentation as the land has been under occupiers for centuries. e.g. Ownership papers issued under the Ottoman Empire is null and void, the people who have lived on and worked the land continuously for centuries are the recognised owners. Remember?....
And how are they going to prove that they lived on it without any legal documents? The documents of the Ottoman Empire can be of use if the current owner has no legal documents at all. Problem is that a lot of Arabs didn't register their land in their own name because of military service in the Ottoman Empire.
April 17th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Correction, you don't care. If you like it or not but Israel is still the only true democracy in the Arab world.
I already gave proof that the Israeli courts do work for Arabs too.
About those video's, how many are fake?
You deliberately mistake US approval for world approval.
Again the physical evidence shows you to be no more than a (probably paid) Zionist stooge. If Israeli courts worked for Arabs, 99% of Israeli Jews would have no land
As for Palestinian videos, probably about about 0.001% of what the Zionists claim. It's a lot harder to fake videos that are backed by some of the worlds most reliable news agencies than it is to put forward some Zionist propagandist making claims that they are the victims, in direct contradiction of all physical and video evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
And how are they going to prove that they lived on it without any legal documents? The documents of the Ottoman Empire can be of use if the current owner has no legal documents at all. Problem is that a lot of Arabs didn't register their land in their own name because of military service in the Ottoman Empire.
They prove it the same way as the Australian Aboriginals prove it, they don't have to,... history is their proof.
April 17th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
They prove it the same way as the Australian Aboriginals prove it, they don't have to,... history is their proof.
Same story of the Native American's , what's erie is their fate of being compressed to reservations compared this.
April 17th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Correction, you don't care. If you like it or not but Israel is still the only true democracy in the Arab world.
I already gave proof that the Israeli courts do work for Arabs too.
About those video's, how many are fake?



And how are they going to prove that they lived on it without any legal documents? The documents of the Ottoman Empire can be of use if the current owner has no legal documents at all. Problem is that a lot of Arabs didn't register their land in their own name because of military service in the Ottoman Empire.
Do you mean in the Islamic world? When I am reading this thread, I am thinking about it as the Australian-Belgian war. You two, my IMF friends, you are really fighting for your views
April 17th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
---snip--- When I am reading this thread, I am thinking about it as the Australian-Belgian war. You two, my IMF friends, you are really fighting for your views
It's almost nothing to do with Australia or Belgium, It's more about trying to right the wrongs of the past that will lead to a de-escalaton of Global Islamic Terrorism which has arisen almost completely as a result of the formation of Israel on land owned by the Palestinian people,... that is all of the Palestinian people Muslim Christian and Jewish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by www.globalfocus.org
In its efforts to protect Israel, the US subverted the fledgling pan-Arab movement. With US support, Israel developed into a major military and nuclear powerhouse. Presumably to balance Israel’s military strength, America supplied military aid and training to nearby Arab states. Eventually it became evident that there was no Arab-Israeli parity – the only plausible use for Arab military hardware would be between Arab states, or against a state’s own citizens. There are no democratic states in the Middle East. The oil-rich regimes have done little to benefit their citizens, creating anger and discontent. Countries like Jordan and Syria that have no oil are even more prone to upheaval, and in all cases it is the US that is seen as the key obstacle to change.
It’s not surprising to see the emergence of al-Qaeda, an organization that points the fingers of blame at America, at repressive regimes and at a nuclear-armed Israel. It’s also not surprising to see the Saudis supporting madrasses (Islamic religious schools) that teach a curriculum of fear and hate – it’s no more illogical than America arming its future adversaries. What is curious is that the U.S. and other western democracies appear capable of repeating its previous foreign policy errors, denouncing reformers, while supporting oppressors. Source:http://www.globalfocus.org/GF-Terrorism.htm#historical
April 17th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
It's almost nothing to do with Australia or Belgium, It's more about trying to right the wrongs of the past that will lead to a de-escalaton of Global Islamic Terrorism which has arisen almost completely as a result of the formation of Israel on land owned by the Palestinian people,... that is all of the Palestinian people Muslim Christian and Jewish.
Yes, I know, I couldn't resist saying what I said. You have an interesting view on this, Spike. The Israeli problem is the major key to all the problems with the so called global terrorism or international terrorism we have today.
 


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