So why do people hate Israel? - Page 50




 
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March 27th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
Yes I agree, but they have never come up against (shall we call it for arguments sake) a first world military. With all due respect, I wouldn't consider the majority of Arab air Forces 1st World. I wonder how good they would be up against US Air Force or RAF crewed fighters.
It will be up to the planes I think, because the quality of the pilots and the tactics are about the same.
March 27th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
It will be up to the planes I think, because the quality of the pilots and the tactics are about the same.

There is another factor to consider if IDF AF, RAF, and USAF met like this. How much time do the Israelis have in the air? Israel is a small country so I assume they are doing their training some where else, a guess would be in the US. I remember from the Cold War, the Austrian and the Swiss Air Forces were in Sweden, due to the consequences if they by accident entered other countries air space. Israel has kind of sort of the similar situation, with hostile countries around them
March 27th, 2012  
BritinBritain
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benaakatz
The merkava is considered to be among the best MBTs in the world. It's trophy active protection system

The Institute for Defense Analyses analyzed 15 active protection systems, including Trophy and Quick Kill, and found Trophy to be the top system. In March 2006, Pentagon testers at the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Dahlgren tested Trophy. An official involved with the tests told NBC that Trophy “worked in every case. The only anomaly was that in one test, the Trophy round hit the RPG’s tail instead of its head. But according to our test criteria, the system was 30 for 30.” (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18356061/)

pretty scary tank to go up against if it was armed with trophy. the next lebanon war will look a lot different
I'm not a tanker by any stretch of the imagination, and you wouldn't get me in tank for all the tea in China. However, from what I have heard and read, the Merkava because of its size is only suited for desert conditions. It could never be used in an Urban environment for example where both the Challenger 2 and M1 Abrams have been deployed with some measure of success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider
There is another factor to consider if IDF AF, RAF, and USAF met like this. How much time do the Israelis have in the air? Israel is a small country so I assume they are doing their training some where else, a guess would be in the US. I remember from the Cold War, the Austrian and the Swiss Air Forces were in Sweden, due to the consequences if they by accident entered other countries air space. Israel has kind of sort of the similar situation, with hostile countries around them
I know RAF aircrew train a hell of a lot in Canada and the USA.
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March 27th, 2012  
BritinBritain
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider
There is another factor to consider if IDF AF, RAF, and USAF met like this. How much time do the Israelis have in the air? Israel is a small country so I assume they are doing their training some where else, a guess would be in the US. I remember from the Cold War, the Austrian and the Swiss Air Forces were in Sweden, due to the consequences if they by accident entered other countries air space. Israel has kind of sort of the similar situation, with hostile countries around them
I know RAF aircrew train a hell of a lot in Canada and the USA.
March 28th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
I know RAF aircrew train a hell of a lot in Canada and the USA.
Yes, this is very theoretical, but if RAF was not welcome to Canada and the US anymore. Perhaps not a huge problem for the RAF, the Israelis on the other hand, must drag their axxes over to Nevada or Arizona to practice and they must bring their stuff with them. There are practical problems connected with this solution. Perhaps the IDF AF cannot practice enough, due to the cost and to get there, much easier if you can solve it back home.
March 28th, 2012  
BritinBritain
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider
Yes, this is very theoretical, but if RAF was not welcome to Canada and the US anymore. Perhaps not a huge problem for the RAF, the Israelis on the other hand, must drag their axxes over to Nevada or Arizona to practice and they must bring their stuff with them. There are practical problems connected with this solution. Perhaps the IDF AF cannot practice enough, due to the cost and to get there, much easier if you can solve it back home.
I remember when I was stationed at a Lightning station in 1970, when aircraft were scrambled for real, they took off on reheat like a Saturn 5, there were a lot of complaints from civi's.
March 28th, 2012  
Del Boy
 
A little in-depth here:-

http://www.mythsandfacts.com/NOQ_Onl...tesisrael1.htm
March 28th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
I remember when I was stationed at a Lightning station in 1970, when aircraft were scrambled for real, they took off on reheat like a Saturn 5, there were a lot of complaints from civi's.
haha, do we really care if they complain? I lived close to an air base once, in the beginning I was a bit irritated, but after a while I didn't even noticed them. If we are going back to if the IDF meet a well-trained military and the MBTs, I like the concept of the Merkava, when it can take infantry as well. I doubt the Trophy system will be so good as they claim it is. It might work toward RPGs and similar systems, when the projectile is quite slow. The Trophy system will never be able to protect the MBT or the APC from a Sabot, the speed of the Sabot is to great and from the detection of the incoming projectile to impact is to short. Electronics can react fast, but there is always a delay between the detection and the countermeasure. I leave that, Egypt has the Abrams, I believe, how good they are to use it? I do not know, but something tells me; if we under estimate some one, that might come back and bite us in rear end.
March 29th, 2012  
BritinBritain
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider
haha, do we really care if they complain? I lived close to an air base once, in the beginning I was a bit irritated, but after a while I didn't even noticed them. If we are going back to if the IDF meet a well-trained military and the MBTs, I like the concept of the Merkava, when it can take infantry as well. I doubt the Trophy system will be so good as they claim it is. It might work toward RPGs and similar systems, when the projectile is quite slow. The Trophy system will never be able to protect the MBT or the APC from a Sabot, the speed of the Sabot is to great and from the detection of the incoming projectile to impact is to short. Electronics can react fast, but there is always a delay between the detection and the countermeasure. I leave that, Egypt has the Abrams, I believe, how good they are to use it? I do not know, but something tells me; if we under estimate some one, that might come back and bite us in rear end.
As I said, I was never a tanker, I have never even sat inside one, nor do I want to, the Merkava looks a stunning piece of kit, but how will it perform against Challenger2 and the M1 Abrams? I have no idea.

You are absolutely correct, under estimate your enemy and it WILL come and bite you in the arse sooner or later.
March 29th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
The one who controls the air has the power to destroy the tanks. Whether it is a Challenger, Merkava or Abrams.

I do not want to be in a tank where the enemy controls the sky.
 


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