So why do people hate Israel? - Page 33




 
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January 18th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhaldev
Actually Kashmir is wanted by pakistan that's why they attacked when the kashmiris refused to be part of it.The problem with kashmir is not all about religion because there are hindus and buddhists as well.The name of kashmir is J&K i.e Jammu and Kashmir,Jammu part is dominated by Hindus while kashmir is 90% muslim while in laddakh region many are buddhist.

There is very little support to pakistan from kashmiri people say 5 to 10%. and even that is changing with economic boom and positive vibes about growth through out the country, the perception of even hardcore muslims kashmiri people are changing towards India.
What I meant was that Kashmir was once part of a "muslim empire" and according to that religion, once moslim land allways moslim land. When muslim land becomes part of a non-muslim land it must be retaken.
January 18th, 2012  
zhaldev
 
 
This is ridiculous assumption on their part....before muslim invasion the whole subcontinent was hindu and India or more say "Bharat Varsh" real name of India, This doesn't mean we can claim Pakistan,Bangladesh,Afghanistan, Myanmar(Burma) as it was part of India before. If that the case the name Kashmir itself is named after hindu sage Kayshap.i.e kayshap+nir=kashmir so it naturally belonged to India.
Though I won't mind getting all of the subcontinent into India again.
January 18th, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Thanks for the invitation

Two different things here: people and state (country)

True, the Arab Palestinians (or whatever they called themselves) lived there for generations. But some jews too. Jerusalem had almost always a jewish majority. There were also a lot of Arab immigrants, from 1870 to 1948 the Arabic population grew by 270%. If you want to evict the immigrated Jews, you also must evict the immigrated Arabs and other immigrants.
I am good with that let say everyone that can not trace an ancestor back beyond 1860 gets the bums rush back to where ever they came from, you ok with that?

And no "God is my cousin" will not be acceptable.



Quote:
Country. The rulers (government or a mandate replacing a government) decide what laws are used, not the people who live there. The rulers decide who is allowed into the country, whether you like it or not. Once you are allowed in you can become a citizen of that country. Again it is up to the rulers to decide what is neccesary to gain citizenship.

Article 7 of the Palestine Mandate (Treaty of Lausanne, signed in 1923) says :


This means that all the people living in the region Palestine got the same natinonality. That nationality could be achieved by immigrants living for at least 2 years in the region Palestine. You can read more about this here : Palestinian Nationality in the 1917-1925 Period

There are people who believe that the Jews must leave because the Palestinians are the "owners" of the land. That's opinion.
I believe that you must respect the rule of law, whether you like it or not and rule of law is made by the rulers of that country. This is not opinion, this is fact.

In short, almost all people living in the region of Palestine up to the creation of Israel had officially the Palestinian citizenship. After the creation of Israel the inhabitants living in Israel automatically acquired the Israeli citizenship.
So what you are saying is that the foreign power occupying the region made laws shafting the inhabitants for the express purpose of shafting the inhabitants and you are ok with this because it is law?

If so you are really opening up a can of worms as you well know because there is a vast difference between ruling a territory (enacting and enforcing the law) and administering the law, as I recall the British mandate was only administrative.
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January 18th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhaldev
This is ridiculous assumption on their part....before muslim invasion the whole subcontinent was hindu and India or more say "Bharat Varsh" real name of India, This doesn't mean we can claim Pakistan,Bangladesh,Afghanistan, Myanmar(Burma) as it was part of India before. If that the case the name Kashmir itself is named after hindu sage Kayshap.i.e kayshap+nir=kashmir so it naturally belonged to India.
Though I won't mind getting all of the subcontinent into India again.
You may as well give up on trying to divert the cause to being a religious matter. This debate is about Palestine, not India and not all Palestinians are Muslim, so your analogies with the problems of India are totally false and off topic.
January 18th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
I'm afraid that English is the only accepted language on this forum.

Could you please provide a translation.
January 18th, 2012  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I am good with that let say everyone that can not trace an ancestor back beyond 1860 gets the bums rush back to where ever they came from, you ok with that?

I think your missing his point. He is saying that you can't cherry-pick your solutions. If you do one thing to one party it should hold the same for the other. It is his way of saying he is AGAINST it and you guys can't use that arguement because it is flawed.

If we were back during the Israeli terrorism days, then I would be against them, but that time is over and there is nothing we can do about it except express condemnation for it. At the moment the ones I see bringing pain to themselves are extreme muslims as well as the Palestinians. That make the conditions really hard to want to side with them.

And once again, I will state this: Israel was not created purely because of religion! There are many reasons the U.N felt that the Jews needed a state of their own. If you do not know why, then look up Jewish history. This quote holds barely any water. It is like you guys ignore the reason Israel was created and why it was created there.

Quote:
There are those of us who do believe that Israel is a bit of a mirage in that it is a country that legitimises itself through a 2000-3000 year old religious claim to have inhabited the land yet the vast majority of its citizens have literally no connection to the region beyond the last 100 years they are in fact European basically it would be like me reading a travel guide to Sweden and then showing up evicting you while claiming I am within my rights because I agree with the travel guide.
January 18th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3

If we were back during the Israeli terrorism days, then I would be against them, but that time is over
Bullsh!t!, can you give me a date when it ended?
Settlers Shooting Palestinians


If you are going to tell lies, at least do us the favour of telling lies that are not so easily disproved. I have already posted several other movies of the IDF killing Farmers whilst harvesting their criops but if need be I will gladly re post them for you.
January 19th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Bullsh!t!, can you give me a date when it ended?
Settlers Shooting Palestinians


If you are going to tell lies, at least do us the favour of telling lies that are not so easily disproved. I have already posted several other movies of the IDF killing Farmers whilst harvesting their criops but if need be I will gladly re post them for you.
I cannot speak for Ray, but I think he is referring to the Stern Gang. We have the State of Israel, it is there even if we want it to be there or not, and we have the Palestinians. How can we (not really we here) reach a peace that satisfies both the state of Israel and the Palestinians?
January 19th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider
I cannot speak for Ray, but I think he is referring to the Stern Gang. We have the State of Israel, it is there even if we want it to be there or not, and we have the Palestinians. How can we (not really we here) reach a peace that satisfies both the state of Israel and the Palestinians?
I don't think RayManKiller knows what he is referring to. Israeli terrorism continues to this day and is actively supported and sponsored by a number of Israeli state organisations including the IDF and Mossad. He was the one who made the comment about "cherry picking" solutions, so he can't reasonably cherry pick dates for terrorist activity.

Did we ask how can we reach a peace that satisfies both the Germans and the Allies in 1939?
January 19th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
I don't think RayManKiller knows what he is referring to. Israeli terrorism continues to this day and is actively supported and sponsored by a number of Israeli state organisations including the IDF and Mossad. He was the one who made the comment about "cherry picking" solutions, so he can't reasonably cherry pick dates for terrorist activity.

Did we ask how can we reach a peace that satisfies both the Germans and the Allies in 1939?

To make a reference to WWII has several problems, if we shall compare, which is always problematic. you can compare an apple with a pear, but not to an orange. So what to do? You realize this is a totally a theoretical discussion, shall we erase Israel from the world?
 


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