So why do people hate Israel? - Page 28




 
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January 5th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Firstly, regarding the original poster's question (which I admit is very poorly phrased), The fact is quite simply that , "People do hate Israel",... hundreds of millions of them, almost certainly over a Billion, mainly Muslims who support Palestine's right to regain their own country from a Nazi like regime who now occupies it.

You will notice that virtually all pro Zionist denial works on the principle that if you break any debate into small enough parts you can find pieces of evidence to support your view, unfortunately, none of which justify the means used by them or the end result.

e.g. It was said of mass murderer John Wayne Gacy "To everyone who met him, John Wayne Gacy seemed a likable and affable man. He was widely respected in the community, charming and easy to get along with. He was a good Catholic and sharp businessman who, when not running his construction company was active in the Jaycees and was also a Democratic Party precinct captain, when he had his photo taken with then First Lady, Rosalynn Carter. He also spent much of his free time hosting elaborate street parties for his friends and neighbors, serving in community groups and entertaining children as "Pogo the Clown". He was a generous, hard working, friendly, devoted family man, everyone knew that"

This is what turns debates on this subject in particular, into never ending shitefights, as the only way to counter it, is to answer on their level finding ever smaller pieces.

Meanwhile the overall and undeniable fact, that Israel is definitely hated by a very significant part of the world's population, goes right out the Window.
I react to the word "hate", it is strong word. Dislike and critical are much better words to use. Hate implies something really bad. You have posted Israelis who are critical toward their own government and the policies it implements. We are and we shall be critical toward Israel when they are doing something ehhh not so wise, but to hate Israel??
January 5th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider
I react to the word "hate", it is strong word. Dislike and critical are much better words to use. Hate implies something really bad. You have posted Israelis who are critical toward their own government and the policies it implements. We are and we shall be critical toward Israel when they are doing something ehhh not so wise, but to hate Israel??
Yes, "hate" is a very emotive word and it's use should be considered with great care, but I feel that this is one of the few sorts of debates where it's use is reasonable.

Speaking purely for myself. If someone were doing to me, what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinian people. I feel, that to say I would "dislike" them would be a grave understatement as to the seriousness of the situation. As an individual, I could never bring myself to set out to murder others, merely because I "disliked" or was "critical" of them.
January 6th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by calixbentley
I heard that they are whiping out Palestinians. But is Palesinte terrorist want to do the same thing to Israel.
More Palestinians die in traffic accidents than getting killed by Israelis.
In 2010, 82 Palestinians were killed by Israelis (Source: B'Tselem) and 188 Palestiniand died in traffic accidents (UN Global status report on road safety).

Quote:
Now what nation isn't guilty of waring against one people
In Africa you had Africans and Arabs selling africans into slaves
IN Europes you had wars against each other especially against the Celtic and Slav people
In China you have HAn people wiping out Turkish ethnic groups.
In Mexico you had them killing of the Apache tribes before the U.S went to war against them
U.S army and many European settlelers went and took land of the native americans and the aboriginals
IN Turkey you have them whiping of Kurds and Armenians
Even Native AMericans are not innocent since many were fierce against other tribes. Like the Aztecs that were brutal in battle.
The empires of the past, Persia, Egypt, Rome, Greece, Babylon etc. Were all nations that fought against each other.
So what the big deal?
Only one example is comparable to the Israel/Palestine conflict, and that's Turkey's case.
The Turks fight against the Kurds because they want independence. They do not massacre them because the Kurds are muslims.
The Turks massacred the Armenians because they wanted independence on muslim ground and were non-muslims (christians).
The Arabs attacked Israel because it declared independence. Israel is on muslim ground and that is not tolerated in the muslim world. If Israel wouln't be so strong they would have been massacred too.

Secular Turkey always had a good relationship with Israel until it became Muslim Turkey again.

pollingreport

CNN/ORC Poll. Sept. 23-25, 2011. N=1,010 adults nationwide. Margin of error Ī 3.

"What is your general impression of the Palestinian people? As of today, is it very favorable, or somewhat favorable, or somewhat unfavorable, or very unfavorable -- or haven't you heard enough about them to say?"

9/23-25/11
Very favorable 5% / Somewhat favorable 25% / Somewhat unfavorable 25% / Very unfavorable 14% / Haven't heard enough 31%

"What is your general impression of the Israeli people? As of today, is it very favorable, or somewhat favorable, or somewhat unfavorable, or very unfavorable -- or haven't you heard enough about them to say?"

Very favorable 22% / Somewhat favorable 37% / Somewhat unfavorable 13% / Very unfavorable 6% / Haven't heard enough 21%

BBC poll:

Israel's popularity climbs in annual BBC poll, but overall global impression is still negative
22 out of 27 different countries that took part in the survey leaned toward a negative view of Israel - giving it an overall 49-percent negative rating.

A comment on the BBC poll : The anti-Israel movement is waging an extremely successful PR battle in the West. The reason isnít because it has the truth on its side ó far from it. Itís because itís become adept at handling a media that is already unsympathetic to Israel. This poll is yet another example of why the Israeli government needs to consider a massive overhaul of its ineffective (nonexistent?) public-relations strategy.
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January 7th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
I really don't wish to get into this again, however I couldn't pass up the opportunity to point out how the last post justified my reasoning as posted by me in post #270 where I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
You will notice that virtually all pro Zionist denial works on the principle that if you break any debate into small enough parts you can find pieces of evidence to support your view, unfortunately, none of which justify the means used by them or the end result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
More Palestinians die in traffic accidents than getting killed by Israelis.
In 2010, 82 Palestinians were killed by Israelis (Source: B'Tselem) and 188 Palestiniand died in traffic accidents (UN Global status report on road safety).
This is typical of the type of excuse that I'm referring to. Firstly it has very little if anything to do with the original poster's question, secondly it falsely tries to trivialise the facts.

To put what VDKMS has said into some perspective. The US has been fighting Muslim extremists for the last 10 years, because 2,752 of it's citizens were killed by them in the World Trade Towers attack.

The US road toll in that year was 37,862 [Source: National Highway Safety Administration], if an equivalent percentage of US citizens were killed in attacks by Muslim extremists, as in the figures quoted by VDKMS above (82 out of 188), that would be a terrorist death toll of 16,514 US citizens for the same year.

In all honesty do you think that this figure would be acceptable to the world, and the US in particular, because of it's alleged triviality when compared to the US road toll for the same year?

Yeah,... I know, it's absolutely nothing to do with the original poster's question,.... but it is a really good example showing the lengths that the Israeli propaganda machine will go to, in their attempts, to either divert the debate and/or trivialise the facts which show them in their true light.
January 7th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
This is typical of the type of excuse that I'm referring to. Firstly it has very little if anything to do with the original poster's question, secondly it falsely tries to trivialise the facts.
It is an answer to the poster's question. When you kill 82 palestinians in 2010 (most of them Jihadists) that is far away from whiping them out.

Since you made no comment on "one example is comparable to the Israel/Palestine conflict" I suppose you agree on that.
January 7th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
It is an answer to the poster's question. When you kill 82 palestinians in 2010 (most of them Jihadists) that is far away from whiping them out.

Since you made no comment on "one example is comparable to the Israel/Palestine conflict" I suppose you agree on that.
I do agree that the palestinians are not being "wiped out" But that does not excuse the methods or ultimate aims of the Zionists. I also would like to know where you got the information that "most of those killed were Jihadists" as in virtuallly all previous years that have been accurately documented this has not been the case.

This year being a typical example with two needless civillian deaths in the first two days of this year.

On 1 January, AS,* (* The full name of the patient from Gaza has been withheld for reasons of medical confidentiality), a 20-year-old man from Gaza, died of a serious disease after being prevented access to lifesaving care in a specialized hospital.
In September 2010 AS was diagnosed with Budd Chiari syndrome, a liver disease that eventually led to liver failure. In mid-December he was referred to Maqassed hospital in East Jerusalem for treatment, and an appointment was set for 26 December 2010. Although the family submitted a request for a medical permit to exit Gaza on 13 December, they only heard back from the Israeli authorities almost two weeks later.

On 2 January, Mahmoud Daraghmeh, 20, from the village of Toubas in the Jordan Valley in the West Bank, was shot and killed by Israeli soldiers at a checkpoint south of Nablus on his way to work. Eyewitnesses reported that he was unarmed and that he was carrying only bottles of soft drinks.

There is no denying that these are two examples of "Why People Hate Israel".
January 8th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
More Palestinians die in traffic accidents than getting killed by Israelis.
In 2010, 82 Palestinians were killed by Israelis (Source: B'Tselem) and 188 Palestiniand died in traffic accidents (UN Global status report on road safety).



Only one example is comparable to the Israel/Palestine conflict, and that's Turkey's case.
The Turks fight against the Kurds because they want independence. They do not massacre them because the Kurds are muslims.
The Turks massacred the Armenians because they wanted independence on muslim ground and were non-muslims (christians).
The Arabs attacked Israel because it declared independence. Israel is on muslim ground and that is not tolerated in the muslim world. If Israel wouln't be so strong they would have been massacred too.

Secular Turkey always had a good relationship with Israel until it became Muslim Turkey again.

pollingreport

CNN/ORC Poll. Sept. 23-25, 2011. N=1,010 adults nationwide. Margin of error Ī 3.

"What is your general impression of the Palestinian people? As of today, is it very favorable, or somewhat favorable, or somewhat unfavorable, or very unfavorable -- or haven't you heard enough about them to say?"

9/23-25/11
Very favorable 5% / Somewhat favorable 25% / Somewhat unfavorable 25% / Very unfavorable 14% / Haven't heard enough 31%

"What is your general impression of the Israeli people? As of today, is it very favorable, or somewhat favorable, or somewhat unfavorable, or very unfavorable -- or haven't you heard enough about them to say?"

Very favorable 22% / Somewhat favorable 37% / Somewhat unfavorable 13% / Very unfavorable 6% / Haven't heard enough 21%

BBC poll:

Israel's popularity climbs in annual BBC poll, but overall global impression is still negative
22 out of 27 different countries that took part in the survey leaned toward a negative view of Israel - giving it an overall 49-percent negative rating.

A comment on the BBC poll : The anti-Israel movement is waging an extremely successful PR battle in the West. The reason isnít because it has the truth on its side ó far from it. Itís because itís become adept at handling a media that is already unsympathetic to Israel. This poll is yet another example of why the Israeli government needs to consider a massive overhaul of its ineffective (nonexistent?) public-relations strategy.

There is always an uncertainty with this kind of surveys. However, they can indicate a trend. (as you said) You (or BBC) say something interesting, I dislike many journalists, because.
Firstly, it may help if you know what you write/speak about.
Secondly, if a journalist has an assumption, he or she will find facts that support their assumptions, but they will ignore facts that contradict their assumptions
January 8th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider
There is always an uncertainty with this kind of surveys. However, they can indicate a trend. (as you said) You (or BBC) say something interesting, I dislike many journalists, because.
Firstly, it may help if you know what you write/speak about.
Secondly, if a journalist has an assumption, he or she will find facts that support their assumptions, but they will ignore facts that contradict their assumptions
Correct.

No one is neutral, even if one wishes to, because in order to be completely neutral one must have all the facts, which is (almost) impossible.

Another factor in "neutrality" is money. Journalists and cameramen are paid for their stories and/or video/pictures. The more dramaticaly they are the higher the chance they will be published and/or seen, some even alter their stories and manipulate pictures. Bad news sells best.

The war between Israelis and Palestinians also is fought in the media. (pro) Palestinians attack, (pro) Israelis defend. Just like the "real" war. But in this one the Palestinians are far better.
January 9th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Correct.

No one is neutral, even if one wishes to, because in order to be completely neutral one must have all the facts, which is (almost) impossible.

Another factor in "neutrality" is money. Journalists and cameramen are paid for their stories and/or video/pictures. The more dramaticaly they are the higher the chance they will be published and/or seen, some even alter their stories and manipulate pictures. Bad news sells best.

The war between Israelis and Palestinians also is fought in the media. (pro) Palestinians attack, (pro) Israelis defend. Just like the "real" war. But in this one the Palestinians are far better.
It would be more interesting to follow up on the surveys. There were two here now. Do you have more than two? To see if the view changes over a longer period of time, further, to see if an "event" influences the perception of Israel/Israelis and Palestine/Palestinians
January 9th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Why do people hate Israel?

Miko Peled, son of renowned Israeli General Mattinyahu Peled and author of "The General's Son", exposes parts of "The Big Lie" and the reasoning behind it.

Quote:
Miko’s unlikely opinions reflect his father’s legacy. General Peled was a war hero turned peacemaker. The general clearly stated that contrary to claims made later, the 1967 war was one of choice, and not because there was an existential threat to the state of Israel. He then dedicated his life to the achievement of Israeli Palestinian peace.
The General's Son, Exposes Israel's Lies
 


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