So why do people hate Israel? - Page 22




 
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December 18th, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips

Originally Posted by Yossarian
Alright I think I get your meaning here,
Let's kill all Israelis, wipe them out and burn every document and piece of the old Testement mentioning them that no one will every remeber even their truimphs or tradegies....

Originally Posted by senojekips
Remember,.... that was what YOU said,... what I said, two pages ago, is quoted below. You are using the same tactics as the Israelis do, first you say or do something totally outrageous to escalate the argument and then you whine like a small child and want sympathy when you get the reply that you deserve. Sorry, but I've seen it all before.
You either didn't understand what Yossarian ment or you don't want to. His above quote is just a sentence out of a reply. But this is not the first time you take something out of its context.

Quote:
If you are going to tell lies, you will need to improve your memory, a LOT. Oh,... and don't worry too much about us forgetting the Israeli"s tragedies, it will be a long, lonnnng time before the world forgets what they did to the Palestinian people.
Like paying Palestinian workers double or triple the pay than what they can earn in the PO or Gaza?
December 18th, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
The Israelis built a wall to protect them selfs from raids from across what they saw as the border. Now in the Bethlehem area they are moving that wall even further into what is considered Palestine territory. Yet if there is a protest the people that protest are called terrorist and shot.
Even if these walls enhance security for Israel it is a sad thing. But Israelis and Palestinians react to it differently. The Palestinians protest and get shot (not all of them I think) according to you. But is the response of the Israelis not better?

Quote:
Visit Palestine
Breaking The Walls

- Registration instructions at the bottom of this page -

For the last decade, it has been nearly impossible for Israelis and Palestinians, the two peoples who share this land, to meet in a plain and normal encounter. The 'Breaking the Walls' tours of Visit Palestine allow us to bring people from both sides of the 'fence' and to break the mental walls that were created at the backdrop of the forced physical alienation.

We aim to create a meeting place for Israelis and Palestinians, to give faces to faceless people and to learn names of unknown roads.

We believe that as more and more Israelis and Palestinians will meet one another, in their home towns and cities, both sides will be able to hear each other directly and discover the 'other side'. Once we build trust and create bonds between us, whoever is truly looking for Peace will be able to find it.

To achieve this, we offer day trips to the least toured places by Israelis in recent years – Area A territories, areas under the civilian and security control of the Palestinian Authority.

Entering Area A territories is done with the IDF's approval as well as with the collaboration of the Palestinian Authority.
You can find the link here

The moral of this story, the Palestinian bangs his head against the wall and the Jew tries to make a profit out of it.
December 18th, 2011  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
The moral of this story, the Palestinian bangs his head against the wall and the Jew tries to make a profit out of it.

Which is exactly why both parties will have to make drastic changes in doctrine if they are to achieve peace, and a new found prosperity to be shared by both peoples.

Both will have to adopt a new outlook on the other and cease a number of activies, with the most difficult of these changes being for them to begin to trust each other.

I could not agree more wholly.
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December 18th, 2011  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
I would prefer a different one. Give the whole of Palestine to the Israelis, not because of pro-zionism or pro-whatever but because they have shown how to run a country. Their people prosper, have an advanced economy and with the backing of a superpower their borders will be safe. Unfortunately this is impossible so I choose for the 2-state solution. Giving Palestine to the Palestinians will not be the end of the conflict but the start of a new beginning. If the whole of Palestine becomes Muslim ground they will start to get the other lost Muslim grounds back. And that are Spain and the Balkans.
Which brings me back to the statement "it is a pity Palestinians are not white Christians", one of the overriding impressions you have left me with in a quite few of your posts is that doing wrong is perfectly fine to achieve an outcome that suits us.

You have backed up this view with anti-Shiaria law posts and I agree that it is not something I want to live under but if other people do then more power to them, now you start the elitist crap about "Israel has developed land and made it a prosperous place" BS, I hate to break it to you but if a thief turns a stolen $100 into a million he is still a thief and if you don't like that your neighbour only mows his lawns once a month instead of weekly you still don't have the right to take over his property.

You will never see an end to these problems by committing wrongs and selling the positives.
December 18th, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
You either didn't understand what Yossarian ment or you don't want to. His above quote is just a sentence out of a reply. But this is not the first time you take something out of its context.
What I posted was quoted directly from his post, I suppose you are going to tell us that it was "not in his diary" and therefore untrue. He clearly did make the statement and there is no doubt that he did deliberately and falsely attribute it's intent to what I had said, in an attempt to escalate the argument. And as I said earlier, this is a typical well documented Zionist ploy. Provoke people and then play the "sympathy card" when there is a justified reaction.

It's odd that you should have to make excuses for him,... what, have you suddenly realised that his stupidity is a liability to your sorry argument?
I've never known any group like the Zionists and their rabid followers, that so often have to use the excuse that they are, misquoted, misunderstood or that their murderous actions were "accidental". So much so, that they actually have to run classes to teach people how to edit information presented on the Internet to give it a pro Zionist slant. I ask myself, why would any group even need to do this?

It's a bit like, and no doubt related to, the age old question, "If Jews have been so despised and distrusted everywhere they have gone for the last 2000 years, why is this so? Once again no other group in history seems to suffer or have suffered this "alleged" long running hatred. Perhaps the goings on in Palestine today and the constant lies and denials of the Israeli leadership are a good indication of why this might be so?

I'm as Jewish as Bennie Netandyahoo, but I don't seem to have any of these problems, but then again I suppose the fact that I don't steal from, beat, harass and murder my neighbours might have some bearing on this.
December 18th, 2011  
Yossarian
 
 
It's quite adamantly clear as previously mentioned this thread has run it's course, I can say with assurance that we are all now polarized to our prespective corners and not much else can be milked out from this topic.
December 19th, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
What I posted was quoted directly from his post, I suppose you are going to tell us that it was "not in his diary" and therefore untrue. He clearly did make the statement and there is no doubt that he did deliberately and falsely attribute it's intent to what I had said, in an attempt to escalate the argument. And as I said earlier, this is a typical well documented Zionist ploy. Provoke people and then play the "sympathy card" when there is a justified reaction.
You always fail to see the big picture. You only look at anti-zionist words, phrases and websites without reading the whole story or even verify if what is written is true. BTW there is no Zionist ploy just as there is no Zionist conspiracy. I have nothing against Zionism but I am not fond of Haredi Jews.
You must also learn the difference between what someone says (opinion) and official statements (policy).

Quote:
It's odd that you should have to make excuses for him,... what, have you suddenly realised that his stupidity is a liability to your sorry argument?
I've never known any group like the Zionists and their rabid followers, that so often have to use the excuse that they are, misquoted, misunderstood or that their murderous actions were "accidental". So much so, that they actually have to run classes to teach people how to edit information presented on the Internet to give it a pro Zionist slant. I ask myself, why would any group even need to do this?
That's an old story which isn't valid anymore. I already proved that. The media isn't as neutral as it should be. Look here.
Look at the Photo of Tuvia Grossman published on September 30, 2000, by the New York Times, the Associated Press, and other media outlets .

The truth was that the "Palestinian" guy was 20-year old Tuvia Grossman, a Jewish American student from Chicago who had been studying at a Yeshiva in Israel, the Israeli police officer in the photograph actually came to his rescue by threatening his Palestinian assailants.
You asked :Why would a group need to do this? I think the example above speaks for itself.
BTW the NYT needed two corrections to get the story strait, but damage was done.

Quote:
It's a bit like, and no doubt related to, the age old question, "If Jews have been so despised and distrusted everywhere they have gone for the last 2000 years, why is this so? Once again no other group in history seems to suffer or have suffered this "alleged" long running hatred. Perhaps the goings on in Palestine today and the constant lies and denials of the Israeli leadership are a good indication of why this might be so?
I'll give you the simple answer : jealousy. Jews have traditionally been one of the most industrious people's, and if you look even today they are. Jews have also been some of the most economically successful people in history as well.

Nobel Prizes have been awarded to over 800 individuals, of whom at least 20% were Jews, although Jews comprise only 0.2% of the world's population.

Albert Einstein (March 14, 1879 - April 18, 1955)
Leonard Bernstein (August 25, 1918 - October 14, 1990)
Woody Allen (December 1, 1935 - )
all are (were) Jews.

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Businessman Sheldon Adelson, Russian mogul Roman Abramovich, Oracle founder Lawrence Ellison and Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg rank among the world's richest Jews

The Forbes 400: A Demographic Breakdown.
30 Jews in the top 100

Quote:
I'm as Jewish as Bennie Netandyahoo, but I don't seem to have any of these problems, but then again I suppose the fact that I don't steal from, beat, harass and murder my neighbours might have some bearing on this.
That's your opinion but here's a fact : Israel's 'Rosa Parks' refuses to take back seat
December 19th, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
You always fail to see the big picture.
You support a universally despised regime that continually commits Crimes against Humanity, and you have the gall to say that I don't see the big picture??

In your book, the theft of a peoples country and the harassment, beating and gratuitous murder of those who resist is OK, and you tell me that I don't see the big picture?? If that is Zionist humour, I'm afraid the non Zionist world doesn't get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
That's an old story which isn't valid anymore. I already proved that. The media isn't as neutral as it should be. Look here.
Proved? as usual. you haven't proved anything,... maybe in your own mind, as small as it is, although I have little doubt that the media is often far from neutral,... considering that most of it is owned by Jews.
Quote:
A plan by the pro-Israel pressure group CAMERA to skew the online encyclopedia Wikipedia in a pro-Israel direction appears to have collapsed after it was exposed by EI (Electronic Intifada). On 21 April, EI , published emails and action alerts posted by CAMERA staff and collaborators on a closed listserv instructing would-be editors how to game the Wikipedia system so they could impose their hard-line pro-Israel agenda undetected.

An example:
“So, for example, imagine that you get rid of or modify a problematic sentence in an article alleging that ‘Palestinian [sic] become suicide bombers to respond to Israel’s oppressive policies.’ You should, in parallel leave a comment on that article’s discussion page (either after or before making the change). Avoid defending the edit by arguing that ‘Israel’s policies aren’t ‘oppression,’ they are defensive. And anyway Palestinians obviously become suicide bombers for other reasons for example hate education!’ Instead, describe how this sentence violates Wikipedia’s policies and guidelines. One of the core principles is that assertions should adhere to a Neutral Point of View, usually abbreviated NPOV. (The opposite of NPOV is POV, or Point of View, which is basically another way of saying subjective statement, or opinion.) So it would be best to note on the discussion page that ‘This sentence violates Wikipedia’s NPOV policy, since the description of Israel’s policies as ‘oppressive’ is an opinion. [ bolding by senojekips] In addition, it is often noted by Middle East experts that one of the reasons Palestinians decide to become suicide bombers is hate education and glorification of martyrdom in Palestinian society …’”
The fact that they felt a need to attempt this "undetected" and quickly removed the evidence against them is as good as an admission of organised wrongdoing. Did you notice the piece about calling Israel's policies oppressive, being described as merely "an opinion". In which case I suppose, the Holocaust being a Crime against Humanity, would also merely be only an opinion?

As a result of attempts like this it is fast becoming common knowledge that Israel is (and has been for a long time) attempting to rewrite history, infiltrating many small lies, to support larger lies. You can't deny videos posted by the groups themselves. No other country in the world feels the need to rewrite history, because no other country attracts so much hatred, and "Where there's smoke, there's usually fire"

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
I'll give you the simple answer : jealousy.
Sorry, but that doesn't stand up to even the most casual scrutiny, The Jews of 17th- 20th century Poland and Russia were dirt poor and had absolutely no influence, as were the majority of Ashkenazi Jews throughout most of their European history, and yet they were detested and despised by all. I think that maybe you have been taking pages out of CAMERA's instruction book on "skewing" the truth.
December 19th, 2011  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
You always fail to see the big picture.
I think what you should have said was "You always fail to see my point of view" and that applies to you as well as everyone else in this thread.

I think it is very clear that your big picture is not the same as everyone elses big picture nor is it any more valid.
December 20th, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
You support a universally despised regime that continually commits Crimes against Humanity, and you have the gall to say that I don't see the big picture??

In your book, the theft of a peoples country and the harassment, beating and gratuitous murder of those who resist is OK, and you tell me that I don't see the big picture?? If that is Zionist humour, I'm afraid the non Zionist world doesn't get it.
The only thing you see and are looking for are announcements and articles about anti-zionism and minimizing Palestinian attacks. That's the small picture. Did you know that Palestinian support for those attacks are very minimal?

Poll No. 180 from Nov. 02, 2011 (Palestinian Center For Public Opinion)
And asked to respond to the question: “Which of the following ways or options, according to your opinion, is the best for ending the occupation and establishing a Palestinian state: a) the negotiations up to the reaching of a deal between the Palestinians and the Israelis, (b) the non-violent resistance (peaceful popular demos), (c) working along with/ through the United Nations, (d) to hold an international conference that is authorized to impose a solution on all parties concerned, (e) violence, military actions, or (f) otherwise ?”, (17.6%) said “the negotiations up to the reaching of a deal between the Palestinians and the Israelis”, (20.9%) “the non-violent resistance (peaceful popular demos)”, (23.4%) said “working along with and through the United Nations”, (17.9%) said “by holding an international conference that is authorized to impose a solution on all parties concerned”, (5.5%) said “violence, military actions”, (10.5%) “otherwise”, and (4.2%) said “ I don’t know”

Valley of Peace initiative
- The regional area of Gilboa and Jenin has a long history of cross-border cooperation. In December 2008, community leaders from both sides of the border met to pursue cooperation on a variety of topics.
- Olives of Peace is a joint Israeli-Palestinian business venture to sell olive oil. Through this project, Israelis and Palestinians have carried out joint training sessions and planning. It has also led to Palestinian oil production being enriched by Israeli ingredients. It has produced olive oil which has been sold under the brand name "Olives of Peace.
- As of 2011, there are about 50 factories in the West Bank industrial region where Jews and Palestinians work together.

Or look here : Projects working for peace among Arabs and Israelis

In 2010, 82 Palestinians were killed by Israelis (Source: B'Tselem) and 188 Palestiniand died in traffic accidents (UN Global status report on road safety).

Quote:
Proved? as usual. you haven't proved anything,... maybe in your own mind, as small as it is, although I have little doubt that the media is often far from neutral,... considering that most of it is owned by Jews.
The fact that they felt a need to attempt this "undetected" and quickly removed the evidence against them is as good as an admission of organised wrongdoing. Did you notice the piece about calling Israel's policies oppressive, being described as merely "an opinion". In which case I suppose, the Holocaust being a Crime against Humanity, would also merely be only an opinion?
Yes I did, in my post #75 from tread About Arabs in the Israeli Army (Page 8)
and I quote:
"You said : "Wikipedia being a site where the Jewish pro Zionist group CAMERA are known to operate"
This argument is invalid because it was exposed in 2008"

I've put in bold "are known to operate" said by you because they were exposed before they did anything. But they are not alone, “Wikipedians for Palestine,” a closed Yahoo group established in January 2006, allegedly engaged in similar practices, inviting Wikipedians “to combat anti-Palestinian and pro-Zionist bias in the English language version of Wikipedia.” The group has since been deleted, along with its archives.
The example you gave is purely hypothetical and not valid.

In a report just released on its Web site, Honest Reporting claims that Electronic Intifada, and not CAMERA, is “manipulating Wikipedia to achieve its ideological goals.”
"A closer look at Wikipedia’s inner workings, however, reveals there is more to the story. Research carried out by Social Media expert Dr. Andre Oboler, a Legacy Heritage Fellow at NGO Monitor, reveals that it was EI, not CAMERA, that manipulated Wikipedia to achieve its ideological goals."

Quote:
Sorry, but that doesn't stand up to even the most casual scrutiny, The Jews of 17th- 20th century Poland and Russia were dirt poor and had absolutely no influence, as were the majority of Ashkenazi Jews throughout most of their European history, and yet they were detested and despised by all. I think that maybe you have been taking pages out of CAMERA's instruction book on "skewing" the truth.
Learn your history. Almost everyone was dirt poor during that period because of famine , diseases and wars. BTW Poland did not exists in the 20th century.
 


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