So why do people hate Israel? - Page 16




 
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December 14th, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
You basically agreed with me, the thing I was saying is just because there were no laws at the time do not mean it was acceptable. The reason these things can not be corrected is not just because there were no laws during that time, but also it is because too much time passed to do anything about it.

Israel have been here for quite a long time, it should therefore stay there as it would effect too many people (which was my point entirely).
Your tongue is easily long enough to trip you up. We agree on nothing at all, you support a murderous regime bent on domination of the land's owners, and I support the owners. We have nothing whatsoever in common, so don't kid yourself, you're only fooling yourself.

Again,... Read what was said, not what you want it to have said.

I said it was acceptable at the time it was done, and also it was not illegal at that time. That is the difference, whereas Israel's crimes have been committed in defiance of dozens of International laws and conventions. Just start here. http://www.israellawresourcecenter.org/ The simple truth is that the Zionists tried to reintroduce colonialism and gunboat diplomacy 50 years after it had gone past it's useby date.

You may as well give up this senseless re-phrasing of the same question, because no matter how you ask it, the answer is still the same,... there is no way you can make Israel's crimes acceptable, as were are illegal at that time and still are, it's as simple as that.

As for your last stupid statement about Israel having been there a long time, I'm sorry to inform you that, "there is no Statute of Limitations on International law and/or crimes against humanity". If you don't believe me, ask Simon Wiesenthal (Yeah, I know, he's dead) or any of a dozen other Nazi hunters. Only last year Ivan Polyukovich was committed for trial, for crimes committed in 1942. Neither did the effluxion of time help Adolph Eichman or Claus Barbie. All of which begs the question, exactly how old are you,... as you argue with the logic of a five year old and the knowledge of young teenager, full of piss and vinegar but notoriously short on knowledge of historical facts.

You are due to go back on the ignore list.
December 14th, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
All you "proved" was that the Israelis have published a document saying the opposite to what is actually happening. Now that's hardly surprising is it? These same people also state that they don't discriminate against Arabs,..... Whereas the facts show that they have actually passed local laws allowing it. (Which is a crime in itself) http://www.israellawresourcecenter.o...ide/SGTII1.htm
That's nit-picking, including your link (which uses frequenty the word Palestine or Palestinian, words that are hardly found in the genuine texts). Every country has comparable laws. Even yours: section 51(xxxi) of the Australian Constitution permits the Commonwealth Parliament to make laws with respect to "the acquisition of property on just terms from any State or person for any purpose in respect of which the Parliament has power to make laws."
For more countries look here.

Quote:
I never said the rule of Law was crap, I said your statement was crap, and there is no connection between the two. For a start if you want to go down the legal road, you'll have to return Palestine to it's owners and that makes your whole argument null and void.
Rule of law is enforced by the court NOT by the people. Try reclaiming in court the property you sold! You never learned something about how rule of law works, did you?

Quote:
And we know that it's not a "religious" conflict as we have many Jews who strongly disagree with the Zionist point of view. Also it's not being fought over religion, it's being fought over dispossession of a people's land.
It is a religious conflict.

The start of the Arab attacks om Jews in 1920 was incited by Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

In 1948 57 ancient synagogues(the oldest dated to the 13th century), libraries and centers of religious study were ransacked and 12 were totally and deliberately destroyed by the Arabs.

Jordan built a hotel on Mount of Olives thus destroying part of oldest and most important Jewish cemetery.

On several occasions, those praying at al-Aqsa mosque began pelting the Jews praying below at the Western Wall with stones and bricks.

Israel must leave because it is build in Muslim ground.

Quote:
Read what was said, not what you think I said. I was quoting "Jews for Justice in Palestine" who were talking about land being bought from absentee Ottoman landowners prior to 1948. Something you were quite aware of if you read the article.
Whether you buy from a local Palestinian or an absentee Ottoman landowner is the same. The only difference can be other land laws, and in the beginning the British took over the Ottoman laws. So what is the problem?

Quote:
I never "distorted" anything, I had no need to,... So it was two separate quotations, he still said it all, and I still demonstrated the Neanderthal mentality of the Zionists. What,... are you going to argue that it wasn't written in his diary?
"But Mr. Shamir, standing atop an ancient West Bank castle, told reporters: ''Anybody who wants to damage this fortress and other fortresses we are establishing will have his head smashed against the boulders and walls.'' A fine sentiment,... if you are a Nazi.
This was your quote :

""(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988"

compare that with your correction and you''l see that it's distorted.
You just copied it from the many anti pages on the internet, all of them the same distortion. You didn't even take time to verify it in the NYT.
December 14th, 2011  
VDKMS
 
[quote=LeEnfield;613711]VDKMS Stated

Quote:
What about you? Are your ancestors natives of the country you live in or did they come from Europe. If so are you ready to move if the natives reclaim their land? And if you have native ancestors don't you have to go back from where they came from?
The reason why I said the above quote was that people all over the world in whatever year moved in and out of other land or countries. Only the Jews, who BTW got their country through the UN, gets attacked up untill now.


Quote:
Now what happened to the Muslims that lived in Spain during the middle ages one wonders
Well, here in Spain there is a yearly festival called "Cristianos y Moros " (Christians and Muslims). They lived very well toghether and also with the Jews. Remember Cordoba. The problems started with new fanatic Muslim rulers in Africa. They invaded Spain (again). Many moderate Muslims fought shoulder to shoulder with El Cid to defend Valencia. Unfortunately the fanatic Muslims eventually won the war. They then drove to France but at the Battle of Tours the "invincible" Muslim cavalry was beaten by the Franc's infantery.
Later the Christian armies drove the Muslims and the Jews out of Spain. It was convert, expel or die. It was a sad time for Christian Europe. The clergy ruled with rules comparable to sharia law. Fortunately this is history, but sharia law still exists in Arab countries, even Muslim communities in Europe (including the UK) demand it.
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December 14th, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
I said it was acceptable at the time it was done, and also it was not illegal at that time. That is the difference, whereas Israel's crimes have been committed in defiance of dozens of International laws and conventions.
Jews bought land in the Ottoman Empire and the British mandate : legal
UN split up the region they controlled : legal
Arabs attacked a souvereign country (Israel) : illegal
Jews fought back : legal
Foreigners cannot buy land in Israel : legal
Jews cannot buy land in Palestine : Illegal (if they stated foreigners it was legal)
militias fighting in civilian clothes : illegal
firing unguided rockets at civilian towns : illegal
expelled and fled Palestinians plus descendants : refugees (The 1951-1967 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees does not mention "descendants") : legal or illegal?
expelled and fled Africans (not descendants) : refugees : legal
expelled and fled Jews : not refugees : illegal
December 14th, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
That's nit-picking, including your link (which uses frequenty the word Palestine or Palestinian, words that are hardly found in the genuine texts). Every country has comparable laws. Even yours: section 51(xxxi) of the Australian Constitution permits the Commonwealth Parliament to make laws with respect to "the acquisition of property on just terms from any State or person for any purpose in respect of which the Parliament has power to make laws."
Did it ever occur to you that the Law quoted was an International law and only concerns countries of occupation. I realise that you make every effort to not understand the facts, your pathetic and childlike attempts at excusing the Zionists are due to stoop to a new level it seems? If that's the best you can do I think it's time I stopped bothering with you, your "logic" is not worthy of an answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Rule of law is enforced by the court NOT by the people. Try reclaiming in court the property you sold! You never learned something about how rule of law works, did you?
Ah,... so we're back to the circular argument again eh? Read my answer, and also my last answer to this same repeated question, my answer wasn't about "law" it was about your statement (As I said last time). Also, I have never mentioned land sold prior to and during the British mandate, so I've got no idea what you are on about. This has been quite deliberate, as my Gt Grandfather was one of those purchasers,... in 1852. He lived peacefully among his Palestinian neighbours and it was not until the arrival of the Zionist troublemakers that many of our family migrated back to England or Australia. They suffered no terrorism, not even a harsh word, I wonder what turned these peaceful people into your so called "terrorists".

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
It is a religious conflict.
Israel must leave because it is build in Muslim ground.
Circular argument,... again, coupled with another childish attempt at distortion of the facts. The truth being nearer, "Israel must leave because it occupies Palestinian ground". The term Palestinian includes Muslims, Christians, Druze and even some Jews.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Jews bought land in the Ottoman Empire and the British mandate : legal
UN split up the region they controlled : legal False: The UN has no legal mandate to just give away land belonging to another people.
Arabs attacked a souvereign country (Israel) : illegal Arabs mounted a justifiable defence against an illegal occupation. Admitted by Jews.
Jews fought back : legal Already answered (Israellawresource) The Nazis tried that excuse with Oradour-sur-Glane.
Foreigners cannot buy land in Israel : legal Illegal when they happen to be the legal owners of the land.
Jews cannot buy land in Palestine : Illegal (if they stated foreigners it was legal)Name me one country that sells land to it's enemy in time of war.
militias fighting in civilian clothes : illegal Tell it to the Stern Gang etc
firing unguided rockets at civilian towns : illegal This was admitted by members of the IDF to have been bought about by deliberate provocation on Israel's behalf. What about, deliberate starvation, destruction of civil infrastructure, daily harassment, curfews, beatings, gratuitous murder, denial of medical and other humanitarian aid, the targeting of civilian areas with guided weapons and phosphorus shells?
expelled and fled Palestinians plus descendants : refugees (The 1951-1967 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees does not mention "descendants") : legal or illegal?
expelled and fled Africans (not descendants) : refugees : legal
expelled and fled Jews : not refugees : illegal
I have no idea what you are talking about here, the convention does not specifically mention Presbyterians either but that in no way says that they are not covered under it's intent. Virtually all of this has already been disproven,... except in the eyes of Israeli law (most of which is illegal in itself). Consult Israellawresource. (Yes I know, it uses the word "Palestinian", and is therefore not genuine to you) However on this occasion I'll settle for the fact that the rest of the world is quite happy with it.
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Today's tidbit and answer the original poster's question.

“Zionist land policy was incorporated in the Constitution of the Jewish Agency for Palestine...’land is to be acquired as Jewish property and..the title to the lands acquired is to be taken in the name of the Jewish National Fund, to the end that the same shall be held as the inalienable property of the Jewish people.’ The provision goes to stipulate that ‘the Agency shall promote agricultural colonization based on Jewish labor’...The effect of this Zionist colonization policy on the Arabs was that land acquired by Jews became extra-territorialized. It ceased to be land from which the Arabs could ever hope to gain any advantage...

“The Zionists made no secret of their intentions, for as early as 1921, Dr. Eder, a member of the Zionist Commission, boldly told the Court of Inquiry, ‘there can be only one National Home in Palestine, and that a Jewish one, and no equality in the partnership between Jews and Arabs, but a Jewish preponderance as soon as the numbers of the race are sufficiently increased.’ He then asked that only Jews should be allowed to bear arms.” Sami Hadawi, “Bitter Harvest.”
December 15th, 2011  
lolwhassup
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
In which cases, that war had almost nothing to do with the settlers except the fact they had to obey the crown, so they didnt see this as their responsibility. Remember that was was specifically about Britain and France, the settlers just got caugh in it.
Just a side-note here. Not much to do with the settlers? You do realize that George Washington ignited the French and Indian war with his "surveying" in the Ohio river valley right? The crown didn't send Washington over there, it was a local colony. Then while he "surveyed", he and his militia attacked a French patrol.
December 15th, 2011  
LeEnfield
 
 
When Britain took up the mandate in Palestine at the end of WW1 it was under the request of the League of Nations which collapsed in the 1930's. After WW2 the UN again asked Britain to run this area as they were on of the few forces with the men and material in place to take up this role until they decided what would happen there, and in the next few years it just teetered on and on
December 15th, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
I think the point has certainly been made very clearly here.

Israel was formed under an illegal, immoral, racist and colonialist precept, and allowed at that time by a world that was sick of war with the British government realising that their people would not allow the further loss of life among their forces needed to resist the Zionist terror that was being conducted against them in Palestine. The continued illegal behaviour of Israel's Zionist leaders was only ignored because of the fear of being falsely labeled Anti Semitic at a time when the Jewish people were only just starting to recover from the holocaust.

Thankfully due to cheap and easily available technology the world is now seeing the truth and the realisation of what has been going on for over 60 years is making many people who once supported Israel aware of their "third world banana republic antics" and continued expansionist aims. Their constant blatant lies, denials and refusals only hastening the world's awakening to their true intent. An intent that was publicly made quite clear as early 1921, and is now returning to bite them on the bum as they now try to deny it all.

So much for the nibbling at the edges of this argument by the pro Zionist supporters with their continued attempted circular arguments in a vain attempt to excuse the Zionists for their totally unacceptable behaviour. The overwhelming truth is clearly evident to anyone who has an open mind and the desire to see and accept the truth.
December 15th, 2011  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolwhassup
Just a side-note here. Not much to do with the settlers? You do realize that George Washington ignited the French and Indian war with his "surveying" in the Ohio river valley right? The crown didn't send Washington over there, it was a local colony. Then while he "surveyed", he and his militia attacked a French patrol.

If you mean, by making an act of aggression specifically against the French, then yes I know that. He definately set the fires up, in the NA theatre.
December 15th, 2011  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
I think the point has certainly been made very clearly here.

Israel was formed under an illegal, immoral, racist and colonialist precept, and allowed at that time by a world that was sick of war with the British government realising that their people would not allow the further loss of life among their forces needed to resist the Zionist terror that was being conducted against them in Palestine. The continued illegal behaviour of Israel's Zionist leaders was only ignored because of the fear of being falsely labeled Anti Semitic at a time when the Jewish people were only just starting to recover from the holocaust.

Thankfully due to cheap and easily available technology the world is now seeing the truth and the realisation of what has been going on for over 60 years is making many people who once supported Israel aware of their "third world banana republic antics" and continued expansionist aims. Their constant blatant lies, denials and refusals only hastening the world's awakening to their true intent. An intent that was publicly made quite clear as early 1921, and is now returning to bite them on the bum as they now try to deny it all.

So much for the nibbling at the edges of this argument by the pro Zionist supporters with their continued attempted circular arguments in a vain attempt to excuse the Zionists for their totally unacceptable behaviour. The overwhelming truth is clearly evident to anyone who has an open mind and the desire to see and accept the truth.

I agree with your first statement (not sure about the illegal part). However, I don't believe in just blaming one party, Arabs definately had a part in the reason Israel was able to be created and expand. All you do is attack one side and you excuse the other side completely (saying terrorism is allowed in self-defense, which is bull). I am glad I do not agree with you; attacking civillians is cowardly, no matter how much your desperate to win.

Do you know how many terrorist acts was done in "self-defense" (according to these terrorists), 9/11 (he seen this as defense for Islam and Arab lands) and the London bombing to name a few... Do you agree that, that was done in self-defense? Going to another country and purposely killing civillians. The Israeli's saw their acts as "self-defense" against the Arab attacks on them, yet you somehow disagree.... I do not agree ownership of land determines who is defending themselves and who isn't.

The fact many is hostile to Israel is what drives them support.
 


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