So why do people hate Israel? - Page 149




 
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September 25th, 2013  
senojekips
 
 
It rates right up there with the pre-1942 Nazi treatment of the Jews, in fact it's far worse as it shows that as a group, they never learned anything from "Die Endlösung",.... except perhaps how to emulate it.
September 26th, 2013  
MontyB
 
 
After reading though this thread I am beginning to think a better question would be "Why would anyone like Israel? "
It is not difficult to understand why people dislike it but I am at a loss as to how anyone can support its actions.
September 26th, 2013  
BritinBritain
 
 
I guess its the same mindset as those who support the Islamist attack in Kenya which apparently from some reports, is still going on.
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October 4th, 2013  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarabVenom
This one is interesting, can you please give examples?
Here is a good explanation as to why we take identity and passport theft seriously in this country...

NZ passport opens world's doors

By Lincoln Tan 5:30 AM Friday Oct 4, 2013

Photo / Mark Mitchell


Kiwis have access to among the widest range of visa-free destinations around the world, just behind the United Kingdom and citizens of European Union nations.
According to the annual 2013 Henley & Partners Visa Restrictions Index, the New Zealand passport opens doors to 168 countries, five fewer than Britain, Finland and Sweden, which topped the list.
New Zealand is ranked joint fifth with Austria and Switzerland in the report that ranked countries according to the number of nations their citizens can access with just a passport.
Nine of the 10 top countries that have visa-free access to more than 170 countries are EU members, including Italy, Denmark and Germany, with only the United States being a non-member nation.
Passport holders from Arab and Muslim states such as Afghanistan and Pakistan enjoy the least freedom of international travel, with Afghans having visa-free access to 28 countries.
Although some Arab Gulf states have freedom of travel among Arab nations, their access is comparatively restricted.

China, the world's most populous nation with 1.3 billion people, rates at just 44 on the list, behind Vietnam, East Timor and Cambodia.
India, with 1.2 billion, rates at 52, fewer than Burkina Faso and Indonesia, the fourth most-populous country.
The report's compilers say there is a strong correlation between average wealth of a nation and its citizens' freedom to travel.
"Visa requirements are also an expression of the relationships between individual nations and generally reflect the relations and status of a country within the community of nations," the report said.
Immigration New Zealand area manager Michael Carley says New Zealand has special visa waiver agreements with more than 50 countries "to encourage tourism and recognise long-standing relationships".
"People from visa waiver countries do not need a visitor visa to enter New Zealand for a period of less than three months, or six months if from the UK," he said.
Thai immigrant Jackie Neeramphorn, a permanent resident who is applying for New Zealand citizenship, said she "cannot wait" to "enjoy the freedom" that comes with holding a New Zealand passport.
With her Thai passport, Ms Neeramphorn is able to get visa-free access to 64 nations, or 104 fewer countries than a Kiwi can.
House of Travel retail manager Brent Thomas said he did not believe Kiwi travellers chose their travel destinations based on whether they required a visa, but believed visa-free agreements benefit the in-bound tourist market.
"If we have a lower barrier of entry for people to come and visit us, absolutely it would be hugely advantageous from an in-bound tourism point of view," Mr Thomas said.
Last year, 1.25 million of the total 2.65 million visitors came from countries with visa-free arrangements, with the UK (1.06 million), USA (882,000) and Japan (375,583) topping the list, excluding Australia.
Visa-free travel access
173 - Finland, Sweden, United Kingdom
172 - Denmark, Germany, Luxembourg, USA
171 - Belgium, Italy, Netherlands
170 - Canada, France, Ireland, Japan, Norway, Portugal, Spain
168 - New Zealand, Austria, Switzerland
32 - Pakistan, Somalia
31 - Iraq
28 - Afghanistan


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11134400

================================================== =

Now if you look at the assassination of Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh in a Dubai hotel in 2010 and check the passports of the individuals used to carry out the killing you will find...
6 passports from the UK
3 passports from Ireland
3 Australian passports
1 French passport
1 German passport.


Then look at the list of the countries that have the highest rate of visa free travel you will see why those countries were passports were chosen.


Now as someone that travels a lot (New Zealand as a whole travel a lot) I do not want to be in a position where I rock up to passport control not knowing whether the guy believes my credentials or not.
October 6th, 2013  
ScarabVenom
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Here is a good explanation as to why we take identity and passport theft seriously in this country...

NZ passport opens world's doors

By Lincoln Tan 5:30 AM Friday Oct 4, 2013

Photo / Mark Mitchell


Kiwis have access to among the widest range of visa-free destinations around the world, just behind the United Kingdom and citizens of European Union nations.
According to the annual 2013 Henley & Partners Visa Restrictions Index, the New Zealand passport opens doors to 168 countries, five fewer than Britain, Finland and Sweden, which topped the list.
New Zealand is ranked joint fifth with Austria and Switzerland in the report that ranked countries according to the number of nations their citizens can access with just a passport.
Nine of the 10 top countries that have visa-free access to more than 170 countries are EU members, including Italy, Denmark and Germany, with only the United States being a non-member nation.
Passport holders from Arab and Muslim states such as Afghanistan and Pakistan enjoy the least freedom of international travel, with Afghans having visa-free access to 28 countries.
Although some Arab Gulf states have freedom of travel among Arab nations, their access is comparatively restricted.

China, the world's most populous nation with 1.3 billion people, rates at just 44 on the list, behind Vietnam, East Timor and Cambodia.
India, with 1.2 billion, rates at 52, fewer than Burkina Faso and Indonesia, the fourth most-populous country.
The report's compilers say there is a strong correlation between average wealth of a nation and its citizens' freedom to travel.
"Visa requirements are also an expression of the relationships between individual nations and generally reflect the relations and status of a country within the community of nations," the report said.
Immigration New Zealand area manager Michael Carley says New Zealand has special visa waiver agreements with more than 50 countries "to encourage tourism and recognise long-standing relationships".
"People from visa waiver countries do not need a visitor visa to enter New Zealand for a period of less than three months, or six months if from the UK," he said.
Thai immigrant Jackie Neeramphorn, a permanent resident who is applying for New Zealand citizenship, said she "cannot wait" to "enjoy the freedom" that comes with holding a New Zealand passport.
With her Thai passport, Ms Neeramphorn is able to get visa-free access to 64 nations, or 104 fewer countries than a Kiwi can.
House of Travel retail manager Brent Thomas said he did not believe Kiwi travellers chose their travel destinations based on whether they required a visa, but believed visa-free agreements benefit the in-bound tourist market.
"If we have a lower barrier of entry for people to come and visit us, absolutely it would be hugely advantageous from an in-bound tourism point of view," Mr Thomas said.
Last year, 1.25 million of the total 2.65 million visitors came from countries with visa-free arrangements, with the UK (1.06 million), USA (882,000) and Japan (375,583) topping the list, excluding Australia.
Visa-free travel access
173 - Finland, Sweden, United Kingdom
172 - Denmark, Germany, Luxembourg, USA
171 - Belgium, Italy, Netherlands
170 - Canada, France, Ireland, Japan, Norway, Portugal, Spain
168 - New Zealand, Austria, Switzerland
32 - Pakistan, Somalia
31 - Iraq
28 - Afghanistan


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11134400

================================================== =

Now if you look at the assassination of Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh in a Dubai hotel in 2010 and check the passports of the individuals used to carry out the killing you will find...
6 passports from the UK
3 passports from Ireland
3 Australian passports
1 French passport
1 German passport.


Then look at the list of the countries that have the highest rate of visa free travel you will see why those countries were passports were chosen.


Now as someone that travels a lot (New Zealand as a whole travel a lot) I do not want to be in a position where I rock up to passport control not knowing whether the guy believes my credentials or not.
Wow, never imagined identity theft to be that dangerous. But, I assume countries in the list like New Zealand get lots of cases for identity theft for all those other countries you can easily enter with a NZ passport.

BRB, I'm gonna go print my own NZ passport. :P
October 7th, 2013  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarabVenom
Wow, never imagined identity theft to be that dangerous. But, I assume countries in the list like New Zealand get lots of cases for identity theft for all those other countries you can easily enter with a NZ passport.

BRB, I'm gonna go print my own NZ passport. :P
Indeed but given that it is only one country we keep catching trying to steal them it isn't hard to understand our response when they ask why we are not best friends.

As for printing your own NZ Passport I hope you do a better job than our lot as I have had to return my last two as the printing process made it look like I have tattoos on my face.
October 11th, 2013  
ScarabVenom
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Indeed but given that it is only one country we keep catching trying to steal them it isn't hard to understand our response when they ask why we are not best friends.

As for printing your own NZ Passport I hope you do a better job than our lot as I have had to return my last two as the printing process made it look like I have tattoos on my face.
Here's what I believe about it, the NZ identity theft issue as far as I know (I could be wrong) doesn't get mentioned enough in the western media unlike Israel in which everything happens to gets repeated over and over and manipulated by the western media and it's all for the Israeli propaganda "We're peaceful people but why don't people like us?" So, the NZ identity theft doesn't get mentioned as much but when Israel says why doesn't NZ like us it gets mentioned for sure and it just helps Israel with it's propaganda and used as another "proof" that people like Israel for no reason.

We just hope for the best, Obama just freezed Egyptian military aid and Israel is babbling about it because they know if the aid is gone, there will be absolutely no reason for Egypt to keep the entire treaty and hopefully, Egypt will get back it's right to station as many troops as it wants on it's territory(Sinai) instead of the bullocks of "organizing with Israel"
October 11th, 2013  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarabVenom
Here's what I believe about it, the NZ identity theft issue as far as I know (I could be wrong) doesn't get mentioned enough in the western media unlike Israel in which everything happens to gets repeated over and over and manipulated by the western media and it's all for the Israeli propaganda "We're peaceful people but why don't people like us?" So, the NZ identity theft doesn't get mentioned as much but when Israel says why doesn't NZ like us it gets mentioned for sure and it just helps Israel with it's propaganda and used as another "proof" that people like Israel for no reason.

We just hope for the best, Obama just freezed Egyptian military aid and Israel is babbling about it because they know if the aid is gone, there will be absolutely no reason for Egypt to keep the entire treaty and hopefully, Egypt will get back it's right to station as many troops as it wants on it's territory(Sinai) instead of the bullocks of "organizing with Israel"
The thing is that it really doesn't need to be mentioned in western media we are a small country and internationally carry little clout therefore it is not something that is covered but I suspect many countries take note and tighten their systems accordingly.

In general it doesn't matter to Israel whether we like them or not either as they always fall back to the "antisemitism" defense line and start spouting on about remembering the holocaust, but the reality is that Israel one day will grasp the concept that it is Israel many people do not like not Jews, in the end I do not care what religion people choose it is all mumbo jumbo anyway but I will judge you on what you do as a nation.
November 14th, 2013  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
After reading though this thread I am beginning to think a better question would be "Why would anyone like Israel? "
It is not difficult to understand why people dislike it but I am at a loss as to how anyone can support its actions.
The negative view of Israel (and the Jews) is because most people do not know the truth.
I'll give an example. Most people believe that the land "Palestine" belongs to the "Palestinians" because the Roman Emperor Hadrian changed the name of the defeated Jewish Kingdom to Palestine Province of Syria. (Few know that the name of Jerusalem was changed to Aelia Capitalina). Many Palestinians refer to the Philistines (Philistine was Latinized to Palestine) as their ancestors. That's not possible, Philistines were Greek, Palestinians are Arab. In fact, the Palestinians (Muslim Arabs) arived in that region in great numbers only in the 19th century. (brief Egyptian occupation and the Ottoman tanzimat which also gave the Jews for the first time in many centuries to settle in their former homeland).
The first Palestinian was Arafat. He was the one who told his warriors to call themselves Palestinians and not Syrians like most did. Like so many Palestinians he was born in Egypt. He was an immigrant and lied about his birthplace. In 1977 PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein told the Dutch newspaper "Trouw" that the Palestinian people does not exist.
Listen to what Fathi Hammad, Hamas, minster of the interior and of national security, has to say abou it (wait approx 2 minutes):

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3-GBsGmE54"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3-GBsGmE54[/ame]
November 14th, 2013  
MontyB
 
 
And still you don't get it but by all means keep hammering away at the same blinkered logic and I am sure people with a like mind will flock to your cause.

The term Palestine is a geographic term, just like New Zealand, Belgium, Australia or the United States and just as in all of those geographic locations Palestinians are those who live in the region known as Palestine and given that the term Palestine (in actual usage) was a term given to a region of Syria between Phoenicia and Egypt by Herodotus in 500BCE I would suggest that unless Arafat discovered the fountain of youth he wasn't the first Palestinian.

Now lets get scientific...
Quote:
30 October 2000

Jews and Arabs Share Recent Ancestry


Cold Spring Harbor, New York--As fighting continues in the Middle East, a new genetic study shows that many Arabs and Jews are closely related. More than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years.

The results match historical accounts that Moslem Arabs are descended from Christians and Jews who lived in the southern Levant, a region that includes Israel and the Sinai. They were descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times. And in a recent study of 1371 men from around the world, geneticist Michael Hammer from the University of Arizona in Tucson found that the Y chromosome in Middle Eastern Arabs was almost indistinguishable from that of Jews.

Intrigued by the genetic similarities between the two populations, geneticist Ariella Oppenheim of Hebrew University in Jerusalem, who collaborated on the earlier study, focused on Arab and Jewish men. Her team examined the Y chromosomes of 119 Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews and 143 Israeli and Palestinian Arabs. Many of the Jewish subjects were descended from ancestors who presumably originated in the Levant but dispersed throughout Europe before returning to Israel in the past few generations; most of the Arab subjects could trace their ancestry to men who had lived in the region for centuries or longer. The Y chromosomes of many of the men had key segments of DNA that were so similar that they clustered into just one of three groups known as haplogroups. Other short segments of DNA called microsatellites were similar enough to reveal that the men must have had common ancestors within the past several thousand years. The study, reported here at a Human Origins and Disease conference, will appear in an upcoming issue of Nature Genetics.

Hammer praises the new study for "focusing in detail on the Jewish and Palestinian populations." Oppenheim's team found, for example, that Jews have mixed more with other populations, which makes sense because they were more likely to leave the Levant.

--ANN GIBBONS



Your theory that Palestinians are the migrant ones looks a little shakey given that DNA evidence shows that Palestinians share DNA with Israeli Jews what this would indicate is that Palestinains are not migrants as you would claim but rather those that stayed and did not abandon the region but instead assimilated with the various invading empires.

So given that I have DNA that will tie me to England within the last few hundred years (not thousands as in the case of Palestinians) and I have no right to return to England and lay claim to a chunk of it why exactly should Jews be able to do the same even if they can produce proof of living there 2000 years ago?


 


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