So why do people hate Israel? - Page 132




 
--
 
April 29th, 2013  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
No, I have the facts and they have been stated here numerous times, It is nothing to do with religion as Palestinians are of different religions, The Christians hate the israelis as much as the Muslims.,this is a fact you cant deny and so you rabbit on about inanities as stated in your Hasbara handbook.

It only stands to reason that if Australia invaded your country, you would not base your dislike on the fact that I as an invader, am an Atheist.

As usual you have nothing you can say relevant to the facts so you attempt to divert and blur the facts to suit your racist views.

Get used to it, no one believes your Hasbara bullsh!t and no one cares what you think any more than they would have a supporter of the Nazis in Germany.

All the above having been said previously, several times.
It appears that DelBot and your self are riding on the same merry go round.
"All the above having been said previously, several times." The only fact about that statement is that you have "said" it several times. I'm still waiting for the facts I gave to be disproved.

You have given many distorted statements. (leaving out or changing words from the real quote) (The Rabin memoirs , New York Times article April 1, 1988 to name a few)

I don't care if someone believes me or not. I give FACTS and facts don't lie. You cannot disprove them , you only say they are not true. Which is what you do.

I give an example.
On September 26th, 2011 you said :
"The Palestinians had asked for a homeland of their own, and were in fact promised it by the British, in agreement for their help in defeating the Turks."
That's a big lie. The British NEVER promised the Palestinians a homeland and the "Palestinians" NEVER fought with the British against the Turks.
The truth is that the Inernational Community promised the Jews a homeland and that five battalions of Jewish volunteers (the Jewish Legion) fought with the British against the Ottoman Turks.

another one:
on October 25th, 2011 you said :
"we have already shown that it was the Zionists who first started terrorising the Palestinians and Brithish administration."

another big lie because you never showed it. I gave you a date on which the "Palestinians" started attacking the Jews first, NOT Jewish settlers, Jews who lived there as long as any so called Palestinian. Up until today you were unable to disprove this fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Yeah but to be fair what else does he contribute to around here, I am always amused by people that show up for one thread only all while trying to pretend they are the voice of reason.

I have no doubt that they will argue they have to "spread the truth" but the reality is that this thread would have sunk to page 20 and been long forgotten had they simply wanted the thread to die and left it alone.

As Winston Churchill once said "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" although I think it was George Santayana who defined fanaticism as "redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim" which covers DelBot very well you would be surprised at the number of battles we have fought because I had the effrontery to agree with him on something.

Still I am enjoying VD arguing that there is no Palestine while showing pictures of official documents referring to Palestine, just the fact that he is oblivious to the irony is worth the price of admission alone, he is as good if not better entertainment than the regular ranting's of the flat earth society guy on speakers corner in town but no where as amusing as the local Christian sect that don't believe in gravity.
The first Palestinian State has not yet gotten approval of the UN Security Council. The first Palestinian state was established in 1994 thanks to an accord with Israel. The Arabs and Turks (all fellow muslims) had alsmost 1300 years to do that but they didn't, the Jews did it within a few decades and even after the Palestinians refused a homeland of their own.

Why didn't the "Palestinians" revolt against the Ottoman Turks?
Why wasn't there a Palestinian state before 1994?
Why are so many "Palestinians" Arabs (WB 83% - Gaza 99%) and why were Arabs allowed to settle there but not the Jews?

"...simply wanted the thread to die and left it alone." , Who's holding you up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
The man is without doubt a certifiable idiot who seems eager to display the fact that he is no more than a typical pro-Zionist hasbara troll. A policy that has really shown Israel for what it is, the world's worst rogue state, a state that finds it necessary to enlist it's own citizens and supporters to try and sex up the facts about it's long running record of military and Human Rights atrocities and lack of care for International opinion.
You forgot your Nazi litany, or are you afraid to be subjected to the law of Godwin?
April 29th, 2013  
D.J
 
Because no other peoples had ever established a national homeland in "Palestine" since the Jews had done it 2,000 years before, the British "looked favorably" upon the creation of a Jewish National Homeland throughout ALL of Palestine. The Jews had already begun mass immigration into Palestine in the 1880's in an effort to rid the land of swamps and malaria and prepare for the rebirth of Israel. This Jewish effort to revitalize the land attracted an equally large immigration of Arabs from neighboring areas who were drawn by employment opportunities and healthier living conditions. There was never any attempt to "rid" the area of what few indigenous Arabs there were or those Arab masses that immigrated into this area along with the Jews!

In 1923, the British divided the "Palestine" portion of the Ottoman Empire into two administrative districts. Jews would be permitted only west of the Jordan river. In effect, the British had "chopped off" 75% of the originally proposed Jewish Palestinian homeland to form an Arab Palestinian nation called Trans-Jordan (meaning "across the Jordan River"). This territory east of the Jordan River was given to Emir Abdullah (from Hejaz, now Saudi Arabia) who was not even an Arab-"Palestinian!" This portion of Palestine was renamed Trans-Jordan. Trans-Jordan would again be renamed "Jordan" in 1946. In other words, the eastern 3/4 of Palestine would be renamed TWICE, in effect, erasing all connection to the name "Palestine!" However, the bottom line is that the Palestinian Arabs had THEIR "Arab Palestinian" homeland. The remaining 25% of Palestine (now WEST of the Jordan River) was to be the Jewish Palestinian homeland. However, sharing was not part of the Arab psychological makeup then nor now.

The 1947 U.N. Resolution 181 partition plan was to divide the remaining 25% of Palestine into a Jewish Palestinian State and a second Arab Palestinian State (Trans-Jordan being the first) based upon population concentrations. The Jewish Palestinians accepted... the Arab Palestinians rejected. The Arabs still wanted ALL of Palestine... both east AND west of the Jordan River. On May 14, 1948 the "Palestinian Jews" finally declared their own State of Israel and became "Israelis." On the next day, seven neighboring Arab armies... Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Yemen... invaded Israel. Most of the Arabs living within the boundaries of the newly declared "ISRAEL" were encouraged to leave by the invading Arab armies to facilitate the slaughter of the Jews and were promised to be given all Jewish property after the victorious Arab armies won the war. The truth is that 70% of the Arab Palestinians who left in 1948 – perhaps 300,000 to 400,000 of them – never saw an Israeli soldier! They did not flee because they feared Jewish thugs, but because of a rational and reasonable calculus: the Jews will be exterminated; we will get out of the way while that messy and dangerous business goes forward, and we will return afterwards to inherit those nice Jewish properties as well. They guessed wrong. So much for the blatant lie about Jews throwing out all the (Palestinian) Arabs! The remaining 30% either (1) saw for themselves that these Jews would fight and die for their new nation and decided to pack up and leave or (2) were driven off the land as a normal consequence of war.

When the 19 month war ended, Israel survived despite a 1% loss of its entire population! Those Arabs who did not flee became today's Israeli-Arab citizens. Those who fled became the seeds of the
first wave of "Palestinian Arab refugees." The Arab propagandists and apologists almost never mentioned that in 1948, Arab armies launched a war against a one-day-old Israel. Instead he focused on the main consequence of that war: the creation of Arab refugees, stating that Israel "war of genocide" expelled 800,000 of them. This not only disagrees with UN estimates of a bit over 400,000 refugees but also ignores the fact that most of the Arabs/Palestinians were encouraged to leave by the Arab World itself!

The end result of the 1948-49 Israeli War of Independence was the creation of a Jewish State slightly larger than that which was proposed by the 1947 United Nations Resolution 181. What remained of that almost-created second Arab Palestinian State was gobbled up by (1) Egypt (occupying the Gaza Strip) and by (2) Trans-Jordan (occupying Judea-Samaria (a.k.a. the "West Bank" of the Jordan River) and Jerusalem. In the next year (1950) Trans-Jordan formally merged this West Bank territory into itself and granted all those "Palestinian" Arabs living there Jordanian citizenship. Since Trans-Jordan was then no longer confined to one side of the Jordan River, it renamed itself simply "Jordan." In the final analysis, the Arabs of Palestine ended up with nearly 85% of the original territory of Palestine... called Jordan but in reality their Arab "Palestinian state! But that was still not 100% and thus the conflict between Arab and Jew for "Palestine" would continue through four more wars and continuous Arab terrorist attacks upon the Israeli citizenry. It continues to this very day.

From 1949-67 when all of Judea-Samaria (West Bank & Jerusalem) and Gaza ... were 100% under Arab (Jordanian & Egyptian) control, no effort was EVER made to create a second Palestinian State for the Arabs living there. Surely you do not expect Israel to now provide these same Arabs with their own country when their fellow Arabs failed to do so! And isn't it curious how Arafat and his PLO (formed in 1964) discovered their "ancient" identity and a need for "self-determination" and "human dignity" on this very same West Bank ONLY AFTER Israel regained this territory (three years later in 1967) following Jordan's attempt attempt to destroy Israel! Why was no request ever made upon King Hussein of Jordan by the Arabs living on the West Bank when he occupied it? Is it logical that the PLO was formed in 1964 to regain the lands they would lose three years later in 1967? This sort of logic makes sense only to those who who have not learned that the PLO was formed to DESTROY Israel. And that is STILL their goal! A cosmetic name change from PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) to PA (Palestinian Authority) does not change the stripes on THIS tiger!

From 1948 to 1967, Egypt ruled Gaza, Syria ruled the Golan Heights, while Jordan ruled the West Bank. They could have set up independent Arab-Palestinian states in any or all of those territories, but they didn't even consider it. Instead, in 1967 they used the Golan Heights, Gaza and the West bank to launch a war that was unambiguously aimed at destroying Israel, which is how Israel came into possession of those territories in the first place. Unfortunately, the world saw things differently and considered Israel an "occupier" (rather than a "capturer") of this disputed "West Bank" and the Gaza Strip along with the 850,000 Palestinian Arabs living there. These Arabs would refer to themselves as "refugees" and joined the masses of refugees from the first Arab-Israeli war of 1948-9. Once again Israel was forced to fight a battle for survival and, sadly, once again Palestinian (in reality, largely Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian) Arabs becoming refugees by their own actions, the actions of their leaders and from the actions of fellow Arabs from neighboring states!

The Middle East struggle is not about right against right. It is about a fifty-year effort by the Arabs to destroy the Jewish state, and the refusal of the Arab states in general and the Palestinian Arabs in particular to accept Israel’s existence. If the Arabs were willing to do this, there would be no occupied territories and there would be a Palestinian state.
April 29th, 2013  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
"All the above having been said previously, several times."
You have given many distorted statements. (leaving out or changing words from the real quote) (The Rabin memoirs , New York Times article April 1, 1988 to name a few)
The Rabin memoirs mean nothing, having been selectively written by the perpetrator of many war Crimes and Crimes against Humanity, and published many years after any events they refer to. They are as as relevant as the memoirs of let's say Joseph Goebbels, had he lived to have his memoirs published. Rabin was a known War Criminal it is hardly likely he would admit to his atrocities in his own self glorifying memoirs. http://www.aldeilis.net/english/inde...mes&Itemid=357 (Yes, don't bother, we know, the publisher is a rabid anti Semite or some other such bullsh!t)

Every other thing you quoted has shown that my version was correct and we all know that you merely keep bringing it back in the hope silencing me by wasting my time re answering your continuous drivel, a known tactic of Hasbara Trolls. I know it's a pack of lies and so do the majority of the free world, you are merely the Zionazi version of a holocaust denier.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.J
Because no other peoples had ever established a national homeland in "Palestine"
What a load of horsefeathers.

Homeland.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dictionary.com
1. one's native land*. *(Native land, noun. The country where you were born [syn: fatherland]
2. A region created or considered as a state by or for a people of a particular ethnic origin: the Palestinian homeland. (No "Jewish homeland" was ever ratified, it was in fact, forcefully and illegally occupied by illegal European immigrants who already had a "homeland" where that came from)
3. Any of the thirteen racially and ethnically based regions created in South Africa by the South African government as nominally independent tribal ministates to which blacks are assigned.
Unfortunately none of the above have anything to do with this mystical "homeland"you allude to and even less to do with this thread.

Actually you are merely trying to obfuscate the facts, and using the oldest ploy in the book of posting great slabs of totally irrelevant "Guff".

The simple fact is, that what happened 1200 years ago has absolutely no bearing on today's actions and in no way excuses Israel's litany of War Crimes and Crimes against humanity. As I have said here a dozen times, my Jewish ancestors came from many places, but that gives me no right to go back to any of those places and drive out the present occupants by force of arms, murdering those who resist. It's as simple as that.
--
April 29th, 2013  
senojekips
 
 

Topic: A short explanation showing where Hasbarats learn to "minimise" the ugly truth



Lies, Damn lies, and Hasbara Fiction (Training Manual)
Targeting immature minds of those too lazy or stupid to look for the truth.

The 116-page instruction manual, called the 2009 Global Language Dictionary, was produced by The Israel Project (TIP), which describes itself as “non-partisan” on Twitter but elsewhere says it’s “devoted to educating the press and the public about Israel while promoting security, freedom and peace”. (A classic piece of Hasbara in itself).
See here for an evaluation of this "work" (Note: The evaluation is by a fellow Jew Richard Silverstein). http://www.richardsilverstein.com/20...dbook-exposed/

And because God, the Great Real Estate Agent in the Sky, gave them the keys to the Holy Land their abominable behaviour is deserving of our support.

The manual teaches the propaganda tricks that Israel’s scribblers and drivelers use to try and justify the slaughter, the ethnic cleansing, the land-grabbing, the cruelty and their contempt for international law and UN resolutions, and make it all smell sweet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Example from the handbook
"... here is the five-step approach to talking about civilian casualties in Gaza:
-- STEP 1 - Empathy: "All human life is precious. We understand that the loss of one innocent Palestinian life is every bit as tragic as the loss of an Israeli life."
-- STEP 2 - Admission: "We admit that Israel isn’t always successful at preventing civilian casualties..."
-- STEP 3 - Effort: "We remain committed to doing everything in our power to preventing civilian casualties."
-- STEP 4 - Examples: "Let me tell you how our armed forces are trained, tasked, and operate to ensure that Palestinian civilians remain safe."
-- STEP 5 - Turn Tables: "It is a great tragedy that Iran-backed Hamas shoots rockets at our civilians while hiding in their own. This causes tragic deaths on BOTH sides. What would you do if you were in this situation?"
Of course no mention is made of the litany of Israeli crimes against the occupants of Gaza that led to all this. Things like the random small arms and artillery fire into Gaza, (remember the family walking on the beach)* Beatings, murder and deliberate delays of sick and injured at Checkpoints, Deliberate targeted destruction of vital infrastructure (Water and Sewage systems), Constant shortages of daily necessities including food and building materials to repair the damage, Harassment and Murder.

Talk about condescending?... It's about as phoney as a three Dollar note.

*The Gaza beach blast was an incident on June 9, 2006 in which eight Palestinians were killed and at least thirty others injured in an explosion on a beach near the municipality of Beit Lahia in the Gaza Strip. "On 9 June 2006, between 4:31 and 4:50 p.m., Israeli artillery and a navy gunboat fired 8 artillery shells at the beach"

Of course there are dozens of other cases, most with video evidence that have all been posted here previously.
April 30th, 2013  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
The Rabin memoirs mean nothing, having been selectively written by the perpetrator of many war Crimes and Crimes against Humanity, and published many years after any events they refer to. They are as as relevant as the memoirs of let's say Joseph Goebbels, had he lived to have his memoirs published. Rabin was a known War Criminal it is hardly likely he would admit to his atrocities in his own self glorifying memoirs. http://www.aldeilis.net/english/inde...mes&Itemid=357 (Yes, don't bother, we know, the publisher is a rabid anti Semite or some other such bullsh!t)
So, Rabin memoirs mean nothing. Where's your proof? Because the link you gave is full of lies. I'll take the first 2:

"1. Mr. Rabin Was Responsible for Ethnical Cleaning / Deportation in 1948"

It's about the order he gave to "expell" the population of Lydda. Of course your "source" distorts the facts by leaving out important facts.

"The twin cities Lydda and Ramleh were of high strategic value (the capture ended Arab threats to Tel Aviv and Jerusalem). Ramleh surrendered and Israel provided busses for the travel. The mayor of Lydda wanted to surrender but was killed by the Arabs. On July 10 when the battalion attacked Lydda, the Arab leadership surrendered. Lydda's leaders were told they could continue to live in peace, provided they surrendered their arms and accepted Israeli sovereignty. They agreed. "Leaving only a few soldiers as guards, the battalion left Lydda to return to Ben Shemen. However, when two Arab Legion armored cars appeared on the horizon the next day, giving the impression that Legion reinforcements were arriving, the Lydda Arabs reneged on their agreement. They didn't give the Israeli soldiers in the town the choice of being expelled. They slaughtered them. "In the meantime, the battalion was surprised to find itself in Ramle sooner than intended. Instead of taking the road to Ben Shemen, the leading vehicle, driven by Jimmy Kantey, had in error turned towards Ramle at the crossroad.... "As a consequence of the massacre of the Israeli soldiers, the troops on returning to Lydda could not accept a fifth column in their midst and forced thousands of families out of the towns during the next three days."
This was not etnical cleaning but pure military sense and propably saved many civilian lives who would otherwise be endangered by enemy actions.

"2. Mr Rabin Ordered in 1967 the Destruction of 3 Villages and the Expulsion of their Inhabitants"

Again this was for military reasons. The Isreali Army occupied large numbers of Palestinian villages during the Six Days War. Almost all were basically untouched. The Army did destroyed three villages---Imwas, Yalu and Beit Nuba (June 8, 1967). The 6,000 residents were deported. [Kenan] Israel knocked the houses down, and later the area became part of the Ayalon Park (known as Canada Park). I am not yet sure why the Isrealis took this action. one of the destroyed villages, Imwas, is thought to be a possible site of Emmaus of Christian scripture. The villages were treated differently because they were an actual military threat. They commanded the road to Jerusalem. Lots of Israelis were killed along that road, particularly during the the 1947-48 siege of Jerusalem. In a sense, the destruction of the villages in 1967 was a final phase of the 1948-49 War, when Israel tried and failed a number of times to capture the Latrun salient. The Army acted here because of the strategic position of the villages.

This is from a UN report A/6797* - 15 September 1967

"60. The Israel Minister of Defence, in his meeting with the Special Representative, stated that he had ordered the destruction of these damaged villages for strategic and security reasons since they dominated an important strategic area.

Representative, the State of Israel had informed the representatives of these three villages that it would help their population "to develop other areas". "


Quote:
Every other thing you quoted has shown that my version was correct and we all know that you merely keep bringing it back in the hope silencing me by wasting my time re answering your continuous drivel, a known tactic of Hasbara Trolls. I know it's a pack of lies and so do the majority of the free world, you are merely the Zionazi version of a holocaust denier.
Don't say it, prove it.

Quote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What a load of horsefeathers.

Homeland.
Unfortunately none of the above have anything to do with this mystical "homeland"you allude to and even less to do with this thread.

Actually you are merely trying to obfuscate the facts, and using the oldest ploy in the book of posting great slabs of totally irrelevant "Guff".

The simple fact is, that what happened 1200 years ago has absolutely no bearing on today's actions and in no way excuses Israel's litany of War Crimes and Crimes against humanity. As I have said here a dozen times, my Jewish ancestors came from many places, but that gives me no right to go back to any of those places and drive out the present occupants by force of arms, murdering those who resist. It's as simple as that.
"Article 13 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted by the U.N. General Assembly, reads,
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each State.
(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country."

Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips

Lies, Damn lies, and Hasbara Fiction (Training Manual)
Targeting immature minds of those too lazy or stupid to look for the truth.

The 116-page instruction manual, called the 2009 Global Language Dictionary, was produced by The Israel Project (TIP), which describes itself as “non-partisan” on Twitter but elsewhere says it’s “devoted to educating the press and the public about Israel while promoting security, freedom and peace”. (A classic piece of Hasbara in itself).
See here for an evaluation of this "work" (Note: The evaluation is by a fellow Jew Richard Silverstein). http://www.richardsilverstein.com/20...dbook-exposed/

And because God, the Great Real Estate Agent in the Sky, gave them the keys to the Holy Land their abominable behaviour is deserving of our support.

The manual teaches the propaganda tricks that Israel’s scribblers and drivelers use to try and justify the slaughter, the ethnic cleansing, the land-grabbing, the cruelty and their contempt for international law and UN resolutions, and make it all smell sweet.

Of course no mention is made of the litany of Israeli crimes against the occupants of Gaza that led to all this. Things like the random small arms and artillery fire into Gaza, (remember the family walking on the beach)* Beatings, murder and deliberate delays of sick and injured at Checkpoints, Deliberate targeted destruction of vital infrastructure (Water and Sewage systems), Constant shortages of daily necessities including food and building materials to repair the damage, Harassment and Murder.

Talk about condescending?... It's about as phoney as a three Dollar note.
This manual does not come from Israel, it comes from the US, and it is not affiliated with any government.

Read the covenant of Hamas, that's far worse. They demand the destruction of Israel.

Quote:
*The Gaza beach blast was an incident on June 9, 2006 in which eight Palestinians were killed and at least thirty others injured in an explosion on a beach near the municipality of Beit Lahia in the Gaza Strip. "On 9 June 2006, between 4:31 and 4:50 p.m., Israeli artillery and a navy gunboat fired 8 artillery shells at the beach"

Of course there are dozens of other cases, most with video evidence that have all been posted here previously.
Well, for one thing the dead and injured were taken to an Israeli hospital. The shrapnel removed was inconsistent with artillery, the victims were not in the location where the artillery was aimed, the incident occurred about five minutes after the shelling had ceased, the crater on the beach was inconsistent with an artillery crater, but completely consistent with a buried charge.

question raised by the newspaper (Süddeutsche Zeitung) is a shot of a man carrying a rifle next to the dead body of Hadil's father. The newspaper said in earlier footage, the same man was seen lying on the beach among the injured.

or read this : German paper doubts Gaza beach reports
April 30th, 2013  
senojekips
 
 
As you are well aware, I don't have to prove anything, the evidence has been written up here, in some cases 2,3 or 4 maybe more times. Not only that the evidence is available for all to see,... if they care to read the papers and watch the TV. We are all well aware that had these atrocities been committed by any other group the US would have bombed the perpetrators back to the Stone Age and hung the survivors.

Your answer never said a thing to disprove anything stated in the link I gave, if anything you only confirmed what was said.

Israel's appalling record of over 60 years of War Crimes and Human Rights abuses is no accident and Hasbara Trolls like yourself are the the nail in Israel's coffin. Had there have been no truth in any of these matters the Israeli Department of Foreign Affairs would never have had to organise this policy of using their citizens and supporters to "distort" the truth.

As I said you are no more than the Zionazi "holocaust denier" and deserve to be treated as such.

Tell us all again how the Palestinians have the right to return to their country? You can't even remember which lies you have told,

I just loved your lame excuse "first we randomly fire at people on a beach with artillery, then we take the bodies to an Israeli Hospital" What were the Israelis running low of donor organs? The question being, why were the Israelis firing at the beach in the first place? You are always the one blathering on about how the IDF try to avoid civilian casualties. Dis they think that the kids sand castles presented a threat to Israeli security?

Admit it, you are a hasbara troll nothing more and nothing less, and a pretty witless one at that.
May 1st, 2013  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Well, for one thing the dead and injured were taken to an Israeli hospital. The shrapnel removed was inconsistent with artillery, the victims were not in the location where the artillery was aimed, the incident occurred about five minutes after the shelling had ceased, the crater on the beach was inconsistent with an artillery crater, but completely consistent with a buried charge.

question raised by the newspaper (Süddeutsche Zeitung) is a shot of a man carrying a rifle next to the dead body of Hadil's father. The newspaper said in earlier footage, the same man was seen lying on the beach among the injured.

or read this : German paper doubts Gaza beach reports

Hmm oddly enough I have a problem with that report as it does not contain a link to the German papers report which you may say means nothing however looking at Y-Nets coverage of the reports from the two British Newspapers that reported discrepancies in the IDF's version they are linked.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...3849,00.html#n

My first impression when I see writing like that is that it is a heavily "modified" piece where the use of links would discredit what you are writing.

But this appears to be the two sides timeline of events...
The independent summarized the different versions:

The IDF's version:
4:48 p.m.: Last shell fired at the area
4:54-4:57: Normal activity on the beach
5:12: Palestinians ask Israel to stop shelling due to injuries
5:15: First ambulance arrives at the beach

The Palestinian version:
4:45-4:46: Palestinian paramedic Khaled Abu Sada telephone confirmation of an emergency
4:50: Abu Sada drives to the beach
5:00: The ambulance arrives at the beach
5:05: First injured arrive at the hospital in the first ambulance

IDF officials said that the army shelled the area between 4:30 p.m. and 4:48 p.m., while the deadly blast occurred between 4:57 p.m. and 5:10 p.m. However, according to hospital records and testimonies given by doctors and ambulance crews and obtained by the two newspapers, the blast which killed the Ghalia family members took place earlier than the army reported, while the shelling was still underway.
May 1st, 2013  
senojekips
 
 
Another denial for our resident Habara Troll
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Telegraph
UN report says Israel could be prosecuted for war crimes over settlements
UN human rights investigators called on Israel on Thursday to halt settlement expansion and withdraw all half a million Jewish settlers from the occupied West Bank, saying that its practices could be subject to prosecution as possible war crimes.
More,... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ttlements.html
May 1st, 2013  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Another denial for our resident Habara Troll
I am always amused by this sort of thing because it shows the great weakness in the likes of VD's argument if Israel can't convince a sizable chunk of its own population and people that are trained in international law that what they are doing is right then why come here and make fools of themselves trying to deny it.

As I have pointed out to VD before his best course of action is not to say "We didn't do it" because it is an indefensible argument, instead the best course of action is to argue "We had to do it because" yet apparently they feel that the international community who have access to so much information that we can sit at home watch the goings on in Israel and around the world real time on live streaming web cams are stupid enough to believe for a change there is no fire in the room full of smoke.

Please just for once realise that this isn't 1948 what you do in front of a camera today is on peoples computer screens in minutes not months, denial is no longer the clever option something that it would appear the Palestinians have cottoned onto faster than the Israelis.
May 1st, 2013  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
As you are well aware, I don't have to prove anything, the evidence has been written up here, in some cases 2,3 or 4 maybe more times. Not only that the evidence is available for all to see,... if they care to read the papers and watch the TV. We are all well aware that had these atrocities been committed by any other group the US would have bombed the perpetrators back to the Stone Age and hung the survivors.
True, if the US was in place of Israel and the US towns got bombarded relentlessly for decades, sure they would bombard the perpetrators back to the stone age. Any country with a strong military would do that, except Israel. Their attacks are almost surgical. No other military in the world send SMS's to civilians to warn them so they can get away.

During Operation Pillar of Defense the Israelis struck more than 1.500 targets with only 133 people killed. That's less than 1 casualty for every 10 targets. A clear evidence that people were NOT targeted.

I wonder how many people of those 133 were killed by the 142 Palestinian rockets that exploded inside their own territory, given the fact that those rockets are fired from within the population.
This child was one of them. The image fooled the international press, but not for long.

Quote:
Your answer never said a thing to disprove anything stated in the link I gave, if anything you only confirmed what was said.
What link? The one from the "manual"? What's wrong with that? If the Palestinians wouldn't lie so much such a manual wouldn't be necessary.

Quote:
Israel's appalling record of over 60 years of War Crimes and Human Rights abuses is no accident and Hasbara Trolls like yourself are the the nail in Israel's coffin. Had there have been no truth in any of these matters the Israeli Department of Foreign Affairs would never have had to organise this policy of using their citizens and supporters to "distort" the truth.
Israel has a record of 60 years of refraining to destroy the Palestinians. They have the power to do that but they don't. On the contrary, they gave the Palestinians their first own country EVER in the history of the middle east. The Turks didn't do it, Palestinians didn't do it, the Arabs didn't do it but Israel DID. The Arabs tried in vane to destroy Israel and it is written in the Hamas and PLO covenant. In 2012 Palestinians fired 2.256 rockets at Israel, each targeted at civilians. Every other country would have bombed the Palestinians to the stone age.

Quote:
As I said you are no more than the Zionazi "holocaust denier" and deserve to be treated as such.

Tell us all again how the Palestinians have the right to return to their country? You can't even remember which lies you have told,
Every Palestinian has the right to return to the PA controlled territories. On 28 September 1995 the Palestinians got self-rule in Bethlehem, Hebron, Jenin, Nablus, Qalqilya, Ramallah, Tulkarm, and some 450 villages. According to the Geneva Convention relating to the Status of Refugees there are not much Palestinian refugees left. Descendants are not counted as refugees, but the UNHCR does because otherwise they would not be able to support them.

Quote:
I just loved your lame excuse "first we randomly fire at people on a beach with artillery, then we take the bodies to an Israeli Hospital" What were the Israelis running low of donor organs? The question being, why were the Israelis firing at the beach in the first place? You are always the one blathering on about how the IDF try to avoid civilian casualties. Dis they think that the kids sand castles presented a threat to Israeli security?
Hamas cleared the side of the Gaza beach explosion just as they got rid of the parts of their own rocket that killed the child that Morsi holds in his hands in the above picture.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eoi07Fv0ng


Quote:
Admit it, you are a hasbara troll nothing more and nothing less, and a pretty witless one at that.
No, I'm just an ordinary Belgian living in Spain using common sense.
 


Similar Topics
Israel rightfully own the West Bank .
Israel strikes Beirut suburb, tightens blockade
A conversation with Iranian dissident (MUST READ)
Palestinians
American racism