Seems statistically the Luftwaffe could have won - Page 2




 
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February 2nd, 2020  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Basically, the Luftwaffe had some experienced pilots and learned a few lessons in Spain (not enough to ditch the Ju-87 though) but that was about it.
The JU87 was brilliant for its intended design as part of a "BlitzKrieg," supporting ground forces, but up against fighter aircraft such as the Hurricane and Spitfire it was next to useless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I would also argue that had the Luftwaffe continued to attack airfields and radar installations it probably would have won.
I don't agree, even if all of 11 group were taken out by bombing, there was still 12 group to contend with, then take into account the short range of the BF109 the bombers would have been slaughtered by 12 group fighters when German fighters turned for home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I still think that had they focused on coastal airfields and shipping in conjunction with the submarine fleet they could have defeated Britain with only a fraction of the losses.
Again I don't agree. Coastal shipping was not vital for supply when the railways were tasked with the same job.
February 3rd, 2020  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
The JU87 was brilliant for its intended design as part of a "BlitzKrieg," supporting ground forces, but up against fighter aircraft such as the Hurricane and Spitfire it was next to useless.
Which is in part my original point, the Luftwaffe was never meant to be a strategic air Force it was designed from the ground up as ground support unit, it obtained localised air superiority and extended that as ground forces moved forward.


Quote:
I don't agree, even if all of 11 group were taken out by bombing, there was still 12 group to contend with, then take into account the short range of the BF109 the bombers would have been slaughtered by 12 group fighters when German fighters turned for home.
All true however had Germany followed it's doctrine the Luftwaffe didn't need to do anymore than control the skies over southern Britain until the army moved forward at which point Luftwaffe forward airfields would have been in Britain and range would have been far less of an issue.
None of which could have happened even with air superiority as the Royal Navy made any landings on a significant scale impossible.

Quote:
Again I don't agree. Coastal shipping was not vital for supply when the railways were tasked with the same job.
Umm I didn't say coastal shipping I said coastal airfields and shipping, I probably should have been clearer as I meant shipping in general as in the Battle of the Atlantic plus coastal airfields.

February 5th, 2020  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Which is in part my original point, the Luftwaffe was never meant to be a strategic air Force it was designed from the ground up as ground support unit, it obtained localised air superiority and extended that as ground forces moved forward.
What Hitler did was therefore designed to secure that end: a deal, not a full-scale invasion. Fighter Command would be destroyed – flushed with his European successes, ex-fighter ace turned military chief Hermann Göring said it could be done in four days. Wishful thinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
All true however had Germany followed it's doctrine the Luftwaffe didn't need to do anymore than control the skies over southern Britain until the army moved forward at which point Luftwaffe forward airfields would have been in Britain and range would have been far less of an issue.
None of which could have happened even with air superiority as the Royal Navy made any landings on a significant scale impossible.
I agree with the RN being the major obstacle for Operation Sea Lion, apart from 12 group there was also 10 group to the west to pour into the mix, with the production of aircraft at a steady pace in my opinion the Luftwaffe could never have defeated the RAF.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Umm I didn't say coastal shipping I said coastal airfields and shipping, I probably should have been clearer as I meant shipping in general as in the Battle of the Atlantic plus coastal airfields.

I assumed coastal shipping as they were often attacked by JU87 in the English Channel
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February 6th, 2020  
MontyB
 
 
I don't think the Luftwaffe needed to defeat the RAF all it had to do was keep it in Britain.
Realistically, as much as the Royal Navy made it impossible for Germany to invade Britain, Britain was never going to able to retake Europe without a massive boost in it's resources that the USA eventually provided.

So all the Luftwaffe needed to do was support the Kriegsmarine in convoy actions and fight to maintain air superiority over the channel.
February 6th, 2020  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I don't think the Luftwaffe needed to defeat the RAF all it had to do was keep it in Britain.
Realistically, as much as the Royal Navy made it impossible for Germany to invade Britain, Britain was never going to able to retake Europe without a massive boost in it's resources that the USA eventually provided.

So all the Luftwaffe needed to do was support the Kriegsmarine in convoy actions and fight to maintain air superiority over the channel.
Air superiority over the channel by the Luftwaffe was never going to happen, they lost too many experience pilots to achieve it, and of course Barbarossa put paid to any invasion of Britain. The German Navy also raised serious concerns regarding lack of air superiority over the channel.

The use of radar ensured that RAF aircraft were not using fuel and wearing out aircraft on constant standing patrols.

Until the USA entered the war, Britain was fighting to survive with vital assistance from ANZAC, and other aircrew from around the world.
 


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