Samurai - Page 2




 
--
 
August 7th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Give the Mongul his horse but take away his bow and he'll kick the crap out of the Samurai (with the Samurai on or off a horse). Take the Mongul off his horse, and he's not a Mongul anymore, now is he?

Truthfully, the Monguls were incredibly eclectic and adapted Chinese martial arts and weapons for their own use. Mind you, they were not bereft of martial arts, but China is probably unsurpassed in the overall development of them ... closely followed by Japan. Take into account the fact that the Monguls invaded China with the numbers heavily stacked against them and with the Chinese taking defensive positions behind walls, etc. So you can draw your own conclusions for what a one on one fight would have turned out like.

Now please understand, I love the Samurai and all that it entails. You are absolutely right, they are among the most formidable warriors ever to exist. Its an interesting contrast. The Mongul is tough and proficient in war because of the sheer brutality of his homeland, Mongolia/Siberia. He has known war all his life and he has survived. The Samurai has sought to perfect his talents as a warrior all of his life. He knows unarmed combat, but the sword is his greatest proficiency. Both the Mongul and the Samurai are impressive, but history would say the Mongul is probably the better warrior. Truthfully, we'll never know.
August 7th, 2004  
Shadowalker
 
 
The mongols did try to invade japan twice, the first time a typhoon blew the fleet away the second time i think the fleet did reach japan but were defeated - i saw a program about the katana/samurai sword and the japanese managed to sneek aboard the mongol fleet (several samurai per boat) and they killed or disabled a large portion of the fleet!
August 7th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Interesting. I hadn't heard of that, can you give me a reference to find out more about it? How much of the Mongul invasion force made it onto the island of Japan?

EDIT: Okay, rather than doubleposting, I'll just insert this into this post. BLEAH on the database crash!! There went the most interesting part of the convo!

My overall objection to the proposal that the Samurai is the greatest warrior ever to exist, is the fact that ... well, they never did anything big. The Greeks, the Mongols, the Romans ... all of those offer us some very obvious PROOF that they were badass. The Japanese were never brave enough to try to take on China head on for any length of time, and the overall exploits of the medieval Japanese are hardly worth noticing on a global scale.

What we have left over is the overhyped Samurai as we know it today. They were skilled swordsmen, but I don't believe that they were absolutely the best of all time. Their martial arts are impressive in their modern form, but how much of that was developped during the time of medieval Japan and how much of it came later? If they were so earthshatteringly great, why don't we see them do something like the Greeks did? Why didn't they go rampaging across the globe with their overwhelming superiorness? (Note that I choose the Greeks for comparison because they are a tiny country, just like Japan, and they shocked and overwhelmed the world.)

For argument's sake, let's just assume that I don't know Japanese history in depth. So will somebody please tell me some valid historical reason for me to be impressed? The great dilema I'm seeing is separating HYPE from FACT, which is difficult sometimes.
--