Originally Posted by ONERING

First off, M16 isn't exactly "American Made" As you people know, it was first made in belgium. Even the beretta pistol is Italian. I've never seen a REAL ORIGINAL AMERICAN MADE assault rifle, but whats a REAL AMERICAN rifle is the M14.

Oh yah the m14, no better piece of crap to have. Mean recoil, one-hit kill.

Sources?

Want to go down the list of US designed and manufactured weapons?
AR series
1911
1919
The infamous BAZOOKA
Ma Deuce

Want to continue?

Some calibres may be from foreign countries, but I can assure you that the M16 and AR series was designed by an American in America.

Why do people always pick on the US? They must be jealous of something...

Originally Posted by ONERING

First off, M16 isn't exactly "American Made" As you people know, it was first made in belgium. Even the beretta pistol is Italian. I've never seen a REAL ORIGINAL AMERICAN MADE assault rifle, but whats a REAL AMERICAN rifle is the M14.

Oh yah the m14, no better piece of crap to have. Mean recoil, one-hit kill.

What? The AR-15/M16 is All American. The M14 is the worlds best magazine fed, semi-auto rifle.

The AR-15 is the AirForce desigantion. Eugene Stoner and Armalite Arms Corp teamed up to create the AR-15 and CAR-15, a new family of 5.56mm assault rifles and carbines. After Stoners failed attempts with his Stoner Weapons Systems, he built the plans for the AR-15 and showed them to Armalite. Armalite made a deal with Stoner, they would produce his weapon but under their name. Armalite showed plans for the AR-15 (M16) to the US Army and the Army disliked the weapon, the AirForce was interested in the weapon, they where in need of a small caliber rifle for Secuirty Forces guarding airfeilds and after a quick test trial they accepted the rifle, buying 15,000. Keeping the original desination, AR-15. After hearing what the AirForce did the US Army rethought the idea and decided to test the weapon in theater, complaints of the weapons jamming and rusting too fast came from the front lines. Armalite decided to redo the weapon, this time croming the barrel and bolt and adding a foward assist, and remaking the bad powder which caused misfires, rounds would swell on humid days and a soldier would go to chamber around and it would stick, as he went to dislodge the round with the bolt, it would rip the catridge bottom off. Armalite also slowed the Rate Of Fire, because the weapon would empty a whole 15 round magizine before the first shell casing hit the ground. After much trial and error Aramlite and the US Army had a deal. The DoD order that all US Forces fighting in Vietnam be armed with the M16, but Armalite couldn't fill that order in two years, so the Army had Armalite Arms Corp sign a contract permiting other gun manufacters to produce the M16. The Army's biggest supplier of the M16 is Colt Firearms Division. The Private Sector adopted the US AirForce designation, now calling all variants and styles of the M16 and M4 the AR-15 or CAR-15.

As I believe someone already pointed out, the shape of the bullet matters almost as much as its mass when dealing with penetration. A smaller bullet with a smaller nose will apply more pressure at the point of impact then a rounder, larger round. So, in a way the 5.56mm round doesn't have the "knock down" power of the 7.62 round but can be more likely to be a kill shit. Look at it as being stabbed with a knife versus hit in the chest with a sledge hammer if you prefer.

That is my understanding of it anyways, pretty much the same reason as why a dull knife stab wound hurts more than a wound from a sharper knife.

Anybody want to take a pool on how long before Americans start referring to weapon rounds as its diameter in mm as opposed to caliber? I take 2028.

Well all the weapons are very good. the XM-8 is basically light and compact with 3 varients. But it sucks because the gun isn't long enough to use the bayonet to touch the enemy at a distance. The M-16 is long and strong so use can use it like a spear with the bayonet on.

Originally Posted by Patel

Well all the weapons are very good. the XM-8 is basically light and compact with 3 varients. But it sucks because the gun isn't long enough to use the bayonet to touch the enemy at a distance. The M-16 is long and strong so use can use it like a spear with the bayonet on.

The compactness is a virtue now that soldiers are having to fight from within HMMVWs. The M-16 is a weapon designed for an antiquated form of warfare.

Originally Posted by Whispering Death

The compactness is a virtue now that soldiers are having to fight from within HMMVWs. The M-16 is a weapon designed for an antiquated form of warfare.

That is why most soldiers are now armed with M4's.

I am sick and tired of hearing the Korean War stories of the M1 Carbine not taking out the enemy when they wore winter clothing. That is a crock of bull. Though the .30 Carbine cartridge isn't as powerful as the .30-06 Springfield. It's still plenty powerful to kill a human. The M1 carbine was a very popualr weapon system during WWII and Korea. Also it was used alot in Vietnam by SF and ARVN. But it was used in the m2 configeration. Which is nothing more than a full auto M1 carbine. The M1 carbine is till popular for police and military forces in the Dominican Republic and for the Police Forces in Israel last time I checked. The Israeli Police just developed a new rifle chambered in .30 carbine and it even uses the M1 carbine magazines still. It's called the Magal.

And as for the 7.62X25 cartridge being weak. That's also bull. It will defeat Level IIIA armour. Which can stop your hard hitting .45 ACP.

Also, I don't hate the bull-pup configeration for a rifle. But the changing of the magazines seem to wierd. I think the reason why the soldiers of Europe and Australia can adapt so quickly to that system is because they've never owned and fired guns.

The best militay rifle hands down is the AR-15 series rifle. Last time I heard, British SAS special forces use the M16, Australia dropped the Styer AUg and went to the M4, and most of our allies use it. Oh, the H&K XM-8 and G-36 are pieces of crap. I shoot both, and I'll galdly keep my M4 carbine. Also, the US Army dropped the XM-8 from it's next generation rifle project. The rifle just oculdn't take a licking and keep on ticking. But if there is one Weapon system that i would love to own. It's the FN-P90 in 5.7X28mm. It's a great PDW. It's even better than my Colt AR-15A3 Tactical Carbine.

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapo...gal/Magal.html
THat's the site with some info on the Israeli Mgagal.

http://www.colt.com/law/ar15a3.asp
That's my rifle. THank God that I live in America and not in New York, Chicago, LA, most of Europe, Australia, or Washington DC.

http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg13-e.htm
FN-P90 info

Australia dropped the Styer AUg and went to the M4

???

No we didn't, nor do we plan to. The F88 Styer is still our primary weapon. And if your reffering to our special forces then thats still wrong, they use M4's as well as a large variety of weapons but generally don't prefer them, their weapon choice varies from what they're doing and where they are.

I've never minded the F88, i find reloading fast and comfortable.
The only thing that bugs me is that the rifle seems bigger then it needs to be if you know what i mean, they should make a smaller one.

Originally Posted by 5.56X45mm

THank God that I live in America and not in New York, Chicago, LA, most of Europe, Australia, or Washington DC.

why would you feel the need to say that? if you feel the need to own something like that...good for you, but your misconceptions about the firearms laws of other countries are glaring.


if i wanted to own a MSSA (military style semi automatic) rifle like that i could, but i would have to go through a stricter firearms licence test.

as it stand now i'll thank god i live in a country where i dont feel the need to own a weapon such as that, with no other purpose than putting holes in other people...i'll stick with my lee enfield.

Enough. Back on topic.