Fix bayonets
Active member
I'm not quite sure if it was true but is it true that a person said to Lord Cardigan after the charge
"Permission to go again sir?"
"Permission to go again sir?"
Was it really said after the Charge of the Light Brigade
melkor the first
Active member
The Charge
Close actually. After the survivors trailed in and the Light Brigade reformed, Lord Cardigan rode forward and said ""Men, it is a mad-brained trick, but it is no fault of mine." A voice replied "Never mind my lord, we are ready to go again." (The Reason Why by Cecil Woodham-Smith is the source for this). I'd also recommend Flashman At The Charge by George MacDonald Fraser for a fictional treatment of the actions at Balaclava,highly amusing and thrilling at the same time, as is the wont for Flashy's adventures. Best JWC
Close actually. After the survivors trailed in and the Light Brigade reformed, Lord Cardigan rode forward and said ""Men, it is a mad-brained trick, but it is no fault of mine." A voice replied "Never mind my lord, we are ready to go again." (The Reason Why by Cecil Woodham-Smith is the source for this). I'd also recommend Flashman At The Charge by George MacDonald Fraser for a fictional treatment of the actions at Balaclava,highly amusing and thrilling at the same time, as is the wont for Flashy's adventures. Best JWC
LeEnfield
Active member
It was recorded that an offer was made to Charge again if required. It was made by Lord Cardigan. When they got back to their lines Lord Cardigan took off his hat to mop his brow and because he was almost bald he would place a handkerchief under his hat to stop it from sticking to his head. Well when he lifted of his hat he found that a Cossack Sabre had cut right through his hat and the handkerchief but had not made a mark on skin of his head. Again it was a case of leading from the front.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
"What cretin shouted charge?"
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Of what i have read, Balaklava was such a bad operation in terms of strategy, It really didn't have any that a 12 year old could have done a better job. They had Artillery they didn't use. They sent many company's of men in the wrong direction and to certain death and they used the cavalry to charge a formidable Artillery position. Much of this debacle can be laid at the feet of Crdigan who was an egocentric moron. But not all of it. It was reported at the end of this unconciously comedic operation all was blaming each other. I remember a 1966 production of Charge of the light brigade. I can't remember too much of it except that the writers and director portrayed the bunch involved as a pack of idiots.
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bren122
Active member
In all likelihood one of the first casualties of the operation was responsible for the charge- a messenger attached to the British HQ was sent with verbal instructions for the Cavalry to attack the guns being withdrawn by the Russians from Turkish positions but instead gestured to the actual Russian gun line. when he realised his mistake he galloped to the front of the charge to stop it but was killed by a shell from the first salvo. not until fully committed to the charge did the British commanders realise that the cavalry was headed in the wrong direction; it was late in charge that the troopers became visible to the leadership.
how much did stupidity play in the charge? the charge of the Heavy Brigade in the same battle was a complete success as was the defence of the Highland Brigade in defence of the reserve line when the Turks gave way. the messenger and Cardigan had quarrelled in England and on the campaign and it is thought that their antipathy towards each other contributed to the mistake amidst haughty words and gestures.
it should also be remembered that the Charge remained an example of the doughtiness of the British Soldier well into the twentieth century. The true blunder of the battle was that made by the Russian cavalry at the end of the charge- a depleted and shattered force was allowed free reign amongst the trained artillery, further allowed to reform and then charge the Russian cavalry who remained in position from the first moments of the charge. the key to the success of any charge is in the momentum. the British were horribly outnumbered at the start of the charge and managed to disrupt and demoralise their opponents at the end of the charge. the retreat was another saga- most casualties are thought to have occured at this point with the defenders on the ridges over looking the approach now awake and aroused to vengeance.
the return to the British positions was heralded with cheers from the Heavy Brigade; Cardigan then ordering his men to form up in order to return the cheers. Any negative comments about the charge would have come at the end of the day at the earliest- and for all the carnage the Charge was a spectacular victory. 600 men (nominal) charged but modern research suggests as few as 80 were killed. it destroyed several of the best Russian Artillery and Cavalry units and the Russian commanders became disheartened that a battleplan that began so well was essentially overcome by two cavalry charges and a defensive action by unsupported infantry.
All information from Lawrence James "Rise and Fall of the British Empire" Anthony Farraday's "Queen Victoria's Small Wars" and "Greatest Military Blunders." The modern research quoted is that of a television series which researched the fates of the men involved and found that some 120-130 troopers were untraceable after the war. the name of the series escapes me but it is a regular on the (Australian) History Channel.
how much did stupidity play in the charge? the charge of the Heavy Brigade in the same battle was a complete success as was the defence of the Highland Brigade in defence of the reserve line when the Turks gave way. the messenger and Cardigan had quarrelled in England and on the campaign and it is thought that their antipathy towards each other contributed to the mistake amidst haughty words and gestures.
it should also be remembered that the Charge remained an example of the doughtiness of the British Soldier well into the twentieth century. The true blunder of the battle was that made by the Russian cavalry at the end of the charge- a depleted and shattered force was allowed free reign amongst the trained artillery, further allowed to reform and then charge the Russian cavalry who remained in position from the first moments of the charge. the key to the success of any charge is in the momentum. the British were horribly outnumbered at the start of the charge and managed to disrupt and demoralise their opponents at the end of the charge. the retreat was another saga- most casualties are thought to have occured at this point with the defenders on the ridges over looking the approach now awake and aroused to vengeance.
the return to the British positions was heralded with cheers from the Heavy Brigade; Cardigan then ordering his men to form up in order to return the cheers. Any negative comments about the charge would have come at the end of the day at the earliest- and for all the carnage the Charge was a spectacular victory. 600 men (nominal) charged but modern research suggests as few as 80 were killed. it destroyed several of the best Russian Artillery and Cavalry units and the Russian commanders became disheartened that a battleplan that began so well was essentially overcome by two cavalry charges and a defensive action by unsupported infantry.
All information from Lawrence James "Rise and Fall of the British Empire" Anthony Farraday's "Queen Victoria's Small Wars" and "Greatest Military Blunders." The modern research quoted is that of a television series which researched the fates of the men involved and found that some 120-130 troopers were untraceable after the war. the name of the series escapes me but it is a regular on the (Australian) History Channel.
In 1950's we were taught to understand the dangers inherent in verbal instructions. The famous example that stuck with us was:- 'Send reinforcements - we are going to advance' which ends up eventually as 'Send three (shillings) and four pence - we are going to a dance'.
The importance of trained and professional company runners.
The importance of trained and professional company runners.
Partisan
Active member
Verbal communications are always tricky - check out what happens today. I think part of the issue is the matter of glory & reward.
The British cavalry were notoriously headstrong and had in the past overreached themselves and suffered for it, Waterloo to name one place. That said battle reporters tend to be stood on the high ground, whereas the cav & inf, tend to in the valley mixing it up. Soldiers are aggressive, that is their job. Sometimes it works, sometimes not, that is the nature of warfare - either way a gifted wordsmith will turn defeat into success & inspire a new generation of heroes.
PS I was raised on the Charge of the Light Brigade - I'm not a hero myself, but I have always been inspired of the bravery of the officers and men; who have been dealt a sh!##y hand, pushed on to do their job.
The British cavalry were notoriously headstrong and had in the past overreached themselves and suffered for it, Waterloo to name one place. That said battle reporters tend to be stood on the high ground, whereas the cav & inf, tend to in the valley mixing it up. Soldiers are aggressive, that is their job. Sometimes it works, sometimes not, that is the nature of warfare - either way a gifted wordsmith will turn defeat into success & inspire a new generation of heroes.
PS I was raised on the Charge of the Light Brigade - I'm not a hero myself, but I have always been inspired of the bravery of the officers and men; who have been dealt a sh!##y hand, pushed on to do their job.