Originally Posted by Ripper

Greetings,

I have read the above content, and all I am looking for are realistic answers.

I was given an OTH for going AWOL, RE-4, etc, etc. I will spare you the specifics and get right on with what I need to know.

There are other errors, but these are the two biggies:

My charge sheet lists me as being absent without leave on a date that I was actually on an authorized leave. All other documents reflect this.

I was listed as being a deserter, and my information was given to the Deserter Information Point on a date before my duty status was changed from absent without leave to DFR/Deserter.

Isn't charging me with being absent without leave when I wasn't illegal?

Isn't listing me as a deserter before my status duty change illegal?

If not illegal, then at least, improper?


Any help with this would be appreciated. Thanks.

And I will spare you my judgment, as well as sparing my account here a slap on the wrist for telling you what I really think.

TI is right: call JAG. Did you not notice these discrepancies when you had your Article 32 hearing? Why did your assigned representation not notice them? Are the dates just wrong on your 214 and you're completely innocent, or are you looking for a military mistake that will absolve you of your crime (and yes, it is a crime)?

If you decided to go AWOL, why not be a man and accept the consequences of your actions, regardless of whether or not the dates are correct?

See, my friend, and I do not mean this to in any way be condescending...

That's what a real man does: he learns from his mistakes. He accepts responsibility for his decisions, he learns a better way for next time, and he admits that he royally screwed up. He never looks to excuse his actions. He slaps himself upside the head long before anyone else needs to do it for him.

You cannot regain all of your integrity and honor. That's a fact of what you did. But you CAN regain most of it by showing the world that you take responsibility, you learned and grew from from your bad decisions, and you'll use yourself to help others not make the same mistakes.

As an Infantry soldier that did my duty, I am pizzed at what you did. However, I am also a flawed human being, just like you, imperfect and with my own flaws and bad decisions and skeletons in the closet. Because of that, I cannot judge you. I WILL not judge you. But I will admonish you to make yourself better by allowing unbridled truth and honesty to be your moniker from this day forward.

And I will further wish you all the best.

Blackwater takes RE-4s? No wonder they're a bunch of f*ck ups.

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

Blackwater takes RE-4s? No wonder they're a bunch of f*ck ups.

No, they do not. Anyone who told you that is lying to you.

I never had an Article 32 hearing. I actually never went AWOL, but as I said earlier, I would only ask the pertinent questions. My DD-214 is fine. However, the charge sheet filled out by the Commander specifies that I was absent without leave when I wasn't. In addition, he shipped off my DFR packet and a warrant was issued for my arrest, while I was still in AWOL status, though I wasn't AWOL. It's a very frustrating situation, and I knew absolutely nothing at the time. I had to do all of my research afterward and i've just now gotten hold of these records.

I've talked to a JAG, being i'm not enlisted, he didn't listen. The main focus here is not about reenlistment. It is about my DD 214 showing correctly what happened.

However, being that the consensus seems to be to contact JAG, this would indicate that there may indeed be an impropriety of some sort with this issue to add to the list.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by AZ_Infantry

RE-4: Dishonorable Discharge. We call it a Big Chicken Dinner (Bad Conduct Discharge).

When you separate from the military, you are issued a DD Form 214 that contains pertinent facts about your active duty military service, such as your awards, MOS, and discharge type. An RE-1 means that you completed your obligation as expected, called an Honorable Discharge.

Then there are "Other Than Honorable" Discharge types, and these have a letter code assigned to the RE code that tells background investigators exactly why you were discharged.

For instance, an other than honorable RE-2BLC discharge means that the military kicked you out for homosexuality. RE-2CBL indicates unsuitability for military service without a specified reason (usually lying to get in). The K's are usually drugs - the military tests you for drugs monthly. Even a puff of pot and you can face an OTH discharge.

The Big Chicken Dinner is reserved for the most egregious offenses of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), usually indicating criminal behavior: AWOL, drug abuse, stealing, acting in a manner that completely dishonors the military, and etc.

If you think of it in civilian terms, an OTH is typified by a misdemeanor, whereas a BCD is a felony (simple analogy).

Most employers will not touch you with an RE-4. It is MUCH worse than an Article 15 or 32. It means that the military criminally prosecuted you, found you guilty without doubt, and booted your butt out. You're irresponsible and embarrass the United States. You cannot be trusted.

I can tell you you are wrong on this. I just got a copy of my DD214 cause I was thinking about going back in now that i've finished college.

I have an RE-4 and a General (Under Honorable Conditions) Discharge. This is the exact wording on my 214.

I had minor disciplinary infractions. To be specific I had an LOR for bouncing a check and not paying it off fast enough to suit my commander. I got an LOR for supposedly telling a SSGT when I was an A1C that he could leave work early?? And a suspended article 15 for the cumulation of those 2 and I think one more LOR. I had no one on my side telling me to fight back so I just took what they gave me. I'm not making excuses, I screwed up.

As to it being like a felony you are so far off it's not even funny. It didn't stop me getting financial aid for school or any one of the many job offers I got right after that. An RE-4 is not the end of the world in the civilian world at all. Now I'm taking it I don't have a shot of getting back in the service but to equate it to a Bad Conduct and a Felony is stupidly wrong.

Originally Posted by dabutracing007

I can tell you you are wrong on this. I just got a copy of my DD214 cause I was thinking about going back in now that i've finished college.

I have an RE-4 and a General (Under Honorable Conditions) Discharge. This is the exact wording on my 214.

I had minor disciplinary infractions. To be specific I had an LOR for bouncing a check and not paying it off fast enough to suit my commander. I got an LOR for supposedly telling a SSGT when I was an A1C that he could leave work early?? And a suspended article 15 for the cumulation of those 2 and I think one more LOR. I had no one on my side telling me to fight back so I just took what they gave me. I'm not making excuses, I screwed up.

As to it being like a felony you are so far off it's not even funny. It didn't stop me getting financial aid for school or any one of the many job offers I got right after that. An RE-4 is not the end of the world in the civilian world at all. Now I'm taking it I don't have a shot of getting back in the service but to equate it to a Bad Conduct and a Felony is stupidly wrong.

Generally, a BCD and a Dishonorable are the same thing. In your case, you have the BCD but under honorable conditions. This is only one of the many dozens of exceptions. There is no possible way that anyone here could cover every discharge type.

The (admittedly) sweeping generalization of the RE-4 classification in this thread is nothing more than just that: a generalization. There is simply no way that anyone here could contend with the literally hundreds of variations.

An RE-4 code, like a civilian felony, has many different types - from lesser counts such as destruction of property to more serious inferences, like murder. In all, however, a felony is a felony is a felony. No charge or conviction defines a man, and no one here is saying that they do or should.

But to claim that my assessment is "stupidly wrong" only touts your own ignorance.

In the military, a BCD is an Article 32 hearing. That is a military felony.

I'm sorry if you don't agree with my assessment.

Wow.

That's all I can pretty much say after reading your guys' take on the RE4 code. To anyone that has gotten out and looking at getting back in, please do not take anyone of these people's word as the almighty's. FYI, an RE4 is not the same as a felony, anti-christdom, or anyother negativity that you guys wanna put on it. An RE4 is exactly that, a number. The more important set of alphanumeric characters that goes with the RE code is the separation designator. The three character string after your RE code that tells anyone that wants to know, why you were removed from the service. Also, to the person who said you can't get a civilian job with an RE4....your just plain crazy. Let me lay it down like this. I received an RE4 after 7.5 years AD USAF. My family and I were living above our means and when we realized it, we were too late. So instead of letting it impact my career or my unit, I asked the USAF to separate me upon finding civilian employement. I was given an RE4A - KDB (to be exact) and guess what, I got a job with a little known company you might have heard of...SAIC? Now, over a year removed from me getting out, I've been accepted into the USAFR. So anyone out there looking at getting back in with an RE4, while it's a guarentee you won't get back in Active, there are other routes..... Just my two cents.

removed...

Yes it is true if you have an RE-Code 4 - your military dreams are over. However, these fear mongers are blowing it out of proportion, the truth is other than law enforcement, nobody gives a **** on the outside world about your military records. I received an RE-4, went to the University of Pittsburgh, received full financial aid, graduated and now live a wonderful life. Not once have I ever, ever been asked about my Military background, and I have had my background ran by the FBI several times for work. So to anyone with a RE-4, yes you ****ed up, as I did and we regret it - however your life can go on and you can achieve anything. Keep your head up

Originally Posted by johnnythunders

Yes it is true if you have an RE-Code 4 - your military dreams are over. However, these fear mongers are blowing it out of proportion, the truth is other than law enforcement, nobody gives a **** on the outside world about your military records. I received an RE-4, went to the University of Pittsburgh, received full financial aid, graduated and now live a wonderful life. Not once have I ever, ever been asked about my Military background, and I have had my background ran by the FBI several times for work. So to anyone with a RE-4, yes you ****ed up, as I did and we regret it - however your life can go on and you can achieve anything. Keep your head up

hooah... thanks for that info... you are right.. your military career is done, but trust me, there is life after the military.