03USMC,
they needed her intacted, biritain was giving her to us! ok what if it was Helmuth Brinkmann her frist CO, not Hans! how would helmuth play it, he would not have hande her over openly. so the questiong come down to, can you talk him down and se if he'll be willing to give her up, then if he dosent then sink her! But dont sink her off the bat, give him a chance to give her up!! that all im saying ok
Nikki

Wanted her intact maybe. Needed her intact doubtful. Especially if it meant hazarding vessels. At this point in the war it's not worth taking chances with your own vessels and the crews to attempt to take a belligerant vessel from a defeated nation under tow.

Your scenerio is that Prinz Eugen decides not to surrender, despite the fact that she is in effect unable to fight a surface action. Your scenerio IMO places too much faith at the allies need her intact and are willing to hazard vessels to take her.

Regardless of her skipper your leaving the professionalism of most Kriegsmarine officers out of it. Yes he has a duty to his vessels. He also has a duty to his crew in that he should not place them in harms way in an unwinnable fight. The war is over they know that. It's pointless.

I don't believe Brinkman would not have surrendered his vessel. I think the closest he come would be scuttling it ala Langsdorff and the Admiral Graff Spree.

The allies would have given the capt and crew a chance to strike their colors and be boarded. But I in no way believe that they would attempt an overly long negoitation.

03USMC
I never said that, i may have just had more faith in her, then most people.. Now with hel, he's in old school Commander, and if he felt like he can protect her and his crew he will.
Nikki

His best protection in this case is one of two things.

1. Honorable Surrender

2. Evacuate his crew and scuttle his vessel.


Any other action is a death sentence for both.

03USMC
one thing you need to know bout hel, That not him, Hel wouldnt give her up with a fight! if even if she dosent have any shells. he would have reather deid then give her to the allies..
NIKKI

I think thats your opinion. But again Brinkman was an expieranced and professional naval officer. Professional enough to know that the war was over. That he couldn't fight a winnable surface action with no main battery. That any action to include ramming that he did attempt would end up with his vessel being crippled or sunk and his crew endangered.

Which brings us back to scuttling ala Graff Spree. If he really didn't want his vessel in allied hands.

Nikki, I think you just don't want to accept the obvious truth.

03USMC
The names NIkki, the one thing i sould have said is : i have ADD And my Slighy MR so if it seams like im coming across as a slighty brat, inm sorry i never intened to ok..
NIKKI

Naw It's all good. I'm enjoying the discussion.

Originally Posted by NASAAN101

03USMC,
they needed her intacted, biritain was giving her to us! ok what if it was Helmuth Brinkmann her frist CO, not Hans! how would helmuth play it, he would not have hande her over openly. so the questiong come down to, can you talk him down and se if he'll be willing to give her up, then if he dosent then sink her! But dont sink her off the bat, give him a chance to give her up!! that all im saying ok
Nikki

If I was to suspend reality for a second and look at the scenario from an end result position (aka the Prinz Eugen breaks free and ends up safely in a neutral port) the first thing I would have to do is look at where it could go and logically the answer would be Sweden as the only other option would be Switzerland and the day a heavy cruiser shows up there would be one for the record books.

Sweden despite dealing with Germany throughout the war also took in escaped Allied POWs and was more in alignment with the Allies than with the Germans so the result would have been that both the ship and crew would have been returned to Germany's allied control council.

The only other option available to reach a neutral port was South America (who were inherently pro-German) and to get there not only would it have had to slip its escort but also avoid the entire Royal Navy and a sizable chunk of the allied air force as its only two options were another channel dash or a long voyage and somewhat suicidal voyage through the GIUK gap (where I suspect almost all of the Allied Atlantic fleet would have parked to wait for it).

Basically no matter how you look at it there was no where for it to realistically run where it would not have faced impossible odds or destruction.

In the end the ship surrendered on the orders of its commander after expending the bulk of its ammunition and fighting itself to a stand still, there is nothing more you could ask of it.