Operation Bagration




 
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October 16th, 2015  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 

Topic: Operation Bagration


In comparison with other major offensives and battles, the Operation Bagration doesn't get the same attention as Stalingrad and Kursk. However, the offensive really crushed army group center and destroyed any remaining hope for the Germans, even if the huge majority of the Germans had lost faith prior Operation Bagration.

Do you agree with Operation Bagration gets lesser attention than, let say Stalingrad and Kursk?
October 16th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
In a nod to his Georgian homeland Stalin named the operation after a Georgian war hero. An incredible Red Army buildup occurred in preparation for Operation Bagration: 1.7 million personal, ~ 5,000 tanks, ~ 8,000 aircraft and ~ 33,000 artillery pieces and mortars. Against this the Germans had only ~ 1.0 million men, ~ 800 tanks, ~ 600 planes and ~ 10,000 artillery pieces and mortars. Hitler despite all the intelligence data to the contrary and input from his commanders to the contrary thought the next great Soviet offensive would be in the Balkans aimed at the Romanian oil fields, not in Belorussia. Belorussia was the last large chuck of German occupied Soviet territory. Also an incompetent commander in chief of army group center Ernst von Busch was in charge. Operation Bagration began on 22 June 1944, the same calendar day on which the Germans had previously invaded the Soviet Union in 1941, with probing attacks throughout the German lines. The main offensive began in the early morning of 23 June.

Compared to other battles, this was by far the greatest Soviet victory in numerical terms. The Red Army liberated a vast amount of Soviet territory whose population had suffered greatly under the Nazi’s. The advancing Soviets found cities destroyed, villages depopulated, and much of the population killed, or deported by the occupiers. In order to show the outside world the magnitude of the victory, some 50,000 German prisoners, taken from the encirclement east of Minsk, were paraded through Moscow: even marching quickly and twenty abreast, they took 90 minutes to pass.

The actual casualties are still in question. With German dead ranging from 100 < to > 300 thousand. Soviet dead was likely ~ 180 thousand.
The operation ceased when the Germans were able to stabilize the lines at the Narew River in Eastern Poland –Western Belorussia in August 14.

The Reich suffered almost simultaneous crushing blows with the great defeat by the Allies in Normandy – Falaise and by the Soviets in Operation Bagration in Belorussia – Eastern Europe. These dual defeat crush the German was machine once and for all. Although Germany continued to fight with determination to the war’s end.
October 16th, 2015  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
In a nod to his Georgian homeland Stalin named the operation after a Georgian war hero. An incredible Red Army buildup occurred in preparation for Operation Bagration: 1.7 million personal, ~ 5,000 tanks, ~ 8,000 aircraft and ~ 33,000 artillery pieces and mortars. Against this the Germans had only ~ 1.0 million men, ~ 800 tanks, ~ 600 planes and ~ 10,000 artillery pieces and mortars. Hitler despite all the intelligence data to the contrary and input from his commanders to the contrary thought the next great Soviet offensive would be in the Balkans aimed at the Romanian oil fields, not in Belorussia. Belorussia was the last large chuck of German occupied Soviet territory. Also an incompetent commander in chief of army group center Ernst von Busch was in charge. Operation Bagration began on 22 June 1944, the same calendar day on which the Germans had previously invaded the Soviet Union in 1941, with probing attacks throughout the German lines. The main offensive began in the early morning of 23 June.

Compared to other battles, this was by far the greatest Soviet victory in numerical terms. The Red Army liberated a vast amount of Soviet territory whose population had suffered greatly under the Nazi’s. The advancing Soviets found cities destroyed, villages depopulated, and much of the population killed, or deported by the occupiers. In order to show the outside world the magnitude of the victory, some 50,000 German prisoners, taken from the encirclement east of Minsk, were paraded through Moscow: even marching quickly and twenty abreast, they took 90 minutes to pass.

The actual casualties are still in question. With German dead ranging from 100 < to > 300 thousand. Soviet dead was likely ~ 180 thousand.
The operation ceased when the Germans were able to stabilize the lines at the Narew River in Eastern Poland –Western Belorussia in August 14.

The Reich suffered almost simultaneous crushing blows with the great defeat by the Allies in Normandy – Falaise and by the Soviets in Operation Bagration in Belorussia – Eastern Europe. These dual defeat crush the German was machine once and for all. Although Germany continued to fight with determination to the war’s end.
I view it as the final nail in the coffin. From the documentary I watched about Bagration, even the Russians were surprised by the outcome of the offensive. The indirect result of the offensive was also the isolation of the army group north, it couldn't take part in the final assault on the Reich
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October 18th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
I view it as the final nail in the coffin. From the documentary I watched about Bagration, even the Russians were surprised by the outcome of the offensive. The indirect result of the offensive was also the isolation of the army group north, it couldn't take part in the final assault on the Reich
This is true they became isolated along the Baltic states and East Prussia. This occurred in the Baltic offensive which followed Operation Bagration. They were eventually isolated in the Courland Peninsula. Where they remained cutoff for the remainder of the war.
November 6th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Many claim the Germans lost the war here or there or at this particular stage in the war. I tend to chose Stalingrad as the point at which Germany suffered its 1st irreconcilable loss. Although they did recover a bit after the Stalingrad loss and retake Kharkov and Belgorod, they never really regained the momentum needed to win.

Regardless the losses suffered during Operation Bagration were the greatest losses suffered by Germany during the course of the war. A fact that is often overlooked. When combined with the almost simultaneous losses suffered in the west these losses were truly catastrophic for Germany. Total losses suffered by Germany likely exceeded 1 million (killed, wounded, missing and prisoners). Some put the figure at considerable higher. There was a great deal of disorder in the German army at this time on both fronts, so estimates vary. This includes the losses for the time period June to August 44.
November 7th, 2015  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
Many claim the Germans lost the war here or there or at this particular stage in the war. I tend to chose Stalingrad as the point at which Germany suffered its 1st irreconcilable loss. Although they did recover a bit after the Stalingrad loss and retake Kharkov and Belgorod, they never really regained the momentum needed to win.

Regardless the losses suffered during Operation Bagration were the greatest losses suffered by Germany during the course of the war. A fact that is often overlooked. When combined with the almost simultaneous losses suffered in the west these losses were truly catastrophic for Germany. Total losses suffered by Germany likely exceeded 1 million (killed, wounded, missing and prisoners). Some put the figure at considerable higher. There was a great deal of disorder in the German army at this time on both fronts, so estimates vary. This includes the losses for the time period June to August 44.
The mental blow the Germans suffered after Stalingrad cannot be underestimated, the less human Russians (and others) defeated the ubermench. The Russians regain the confidence as a result of Stalingrad.
November 7th, 2015  
Remington 1858
 
 
One of the most remarkable aspects of Bagration is the fact that the Soviets were able to conceal their preparations from the Germans. By that stage of the war the Soviets had developed deception to a high art. Tactical deception is a specialized military arm is Russia.
November 7th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remington 1858
One of the most remarkable aspects of Bagration is the fact that the Soviets were able to conceal their preparations from the Germans. By that stage of the war the Soviets had developed deception to a high art. Tactical deception is a specialized military arm is Russia.
Actually German intelligence told Hitler and the German high command that the next great Soviet attack would occur in Belorussia. These warnings were ignored.
November 7th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Hm : Bagration happened in Bielorussia;FHO predicted an attack in the Ukraine .And there was also an attack in the Ukraine .
November 7th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
Hm : Bagration happened in Bielorussia;FHO predicted an attack in the Ukraine .And there was also an attack in the Ukraine .
German intelligence reports warned General Ernst von Busch (commander of Army Group Center) about the Red Army build up in his sector. But Hitler and the General staff chose to ignore such warning believing that the attack would be towards the Romanian oil fields.
The attack into Romania occurred later as did the attacks to the north. Operation Bagration itself did not target these area's.
 


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