New military rifle concept? - Page 5




 
--
 
April 6th, 2006  
major liability
 
 
HK416 is nice if you're trained on AR-15 pattern weapons but I still prefer a bullpup. Lighter, shorter, more ergonomic.
April 6th, 2006  
zander_0633
 
 
Well, wad about the SAR 21
My country produces it and is is better than the M-16 platform.
April 6th, 2006  
PJ24
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by major liability
HK416 is nice if you're trained on AR-15 pattern weapons but I still prefer a bullpup. Lighter, shorter, more ergonomic.
They aren't really any more ergonomic than the M4 or HK416, actually. As for shorter overall, yes, but that also redistributes the weight.

Bullpups have a heavy butt, trigger pulls aren't so hot because of the long trigger linkage, and you can't fire them from the weak side, which is a disadvantage when doing MOUT.

You mentioned the Tavor, which is about 2.4kg empty, the M4 is about 2.5kg empty, so "lighter" isn't really a factor. In fact, most weigh more than the M4. (FAMAS, FN, Steyr, SAR-21 are some examples).

Like with most weapons, there are advantages and disadvantages to choosing one or the other. Conventional infantry can certainly make the the bullpup work to their advantage, but again, it has no great advantages over the traditional carbine either.

As for the SAR-21 isn't a bad weapon, and it is fairly accurate, but that myth that you don't have to zero it is crap. You do.
--
April 7th, 2006  
Obvious
 
 
I'd like to see a company produce a 7.62 X51 nato rifle with a 3 round burst fire. If it already has been made can anyone tell me what it is?
April 7th, 2006  
zander_0633
 
 
I thought that's the HK417?
April 7th, 2006  
Doug97
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ24
They aren't really any more ergonomic than the M4 or HK416, actually.
I guess it's a matter of taste.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ24
As for shorter overall, yes, but that also redistributes the weight. Bullpups have a heavy butt, trigger pulls aren't so hot because of the long trigger linkage, and you can't fire them from the weak side, which is a disadvantage when doing MOUT.
The FN F2000 can fire from either side.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ24
You mentioned the Tavor, which is about 2.4kg empty, the M4 is about 2.5kg empty, so "lighter" isn't really a factor. In fact, most weigh more than the M4. (FAMAS, FN, Steyr, SAR-21 are some examples).
All of those have longer barrels than the M4; it would be fairer and more correct to compare them with the M16A2, which is heavier than the M4.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ24
Like with most weapons, there are advantages and disadvantages to choosing one or the other. Conventional infantry can certainly make the the bullpup work to their advantage, but again, it has no great advantages over the traditional carbine either.
Apart from the longer barrel, which gives better accuracy and better stopping power (which the 5.56 round needs).
April 7th, 2006  
PJ24
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug97
I guess it's a matter of taste.
It is a matter of preference. One is no better than the other.

Quote:
The FN F2000 can fire from either side.
Yes, that's the only one to date.

Quote:
All of those have longer barrels than the M4; it would be fairer and more correct to compare them with the M16A2, which is heavier than the M4.
Not really, because the barrel isn't long enough to compare with the M16. It is closer to the M4.

Quote:
Apart from the longer barrel, which gives better accuracy and better stopping power (which the 5.56 round needs).

Will the slightly longer barrel help? Yes, but there isn't that much difference, not enough to rate.
April 9th, 2006  
major liability
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ24
It is a matter of preference. One is no better than the other.
This is true. That's why I said I prefer bullpups rather than stating "BULLPUPS ARE TEH BESTEST!!111"
April 9th, 2006  
A Can of Man
 
 
Remember how the assault rifle was born. It's a compromise between the SMG and the full rifle. A compromise is neccessary because you can carry only one.
April 12th, 2006  
Doug97
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ24
Not really, because the barrel isn't long enough to compare with the M16. It is closer to the M4.
The Steyr AUG, the FAMAS, the L85A2 and the SAR21 all have barrels that are much closer in length to the M16 than the M4.

Barrel length makes a significant difference to the range at which the 5.56 bullet will fragment, which is when it's at its most effective.