Most decisive battle in WW2? - Page 11




View Poll Results :Most decisive battle in WW2?
Battle of Stalingrad 34 33.33%
Battle of Kursk (Operation Citadel) 15 14.71%
Battle of Moscow 10 9.80%
Battle of Leningrad 0 0%
Battle of El Alamein 3 2.94%
Operation Overlord (Battle of Normandy) 17 16.67%
Battle of Midway 11 10.78%
Other 12 11.76%
Voters: 102. You may not vote on this poll

 
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October 20th, 2007  
Kunikov
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
As your purpose seems to be primarily focussed upon shredding any point of view that is not your own, you can readily expect that I'll not wish to bother anymore. You've managed to answer my post with a holier than thou, "You clearly do not know what the hell your talking about" response. Wikipedia isn't an acceptable source? Who the hell put you in charge of defining what is and what isn't "an acceptable source"? Where's yours? Nobody else seemed to be posting any sources to validate the numbers being thrown around for that piece of the discussion so it seemed like it would be helpful.

Clearly it is not worth wasting my time or effort on. And by the way, you may have noticed the few paragraphs below the numbers posted. That was a perspective and a context.
That's fine, I'd rather not discuss things with those who choose to parrot what others write without taking the time to find out the facts for themselves. I have the original source in my hands at the moment, do you? I can read Russian, can you? I can afford a 'holier than thou' attitude because it's backed up by something, can you say the same?
October 20th, 2007  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunikov
That's fine, I'd rather not discuss things with those who choose to parrot what others write without taking the time to find out the facts for themselves. I have the original source in my hands at the moment, do you? I can read Russian, can you? I can afford a 'holier than thou' attitude because it's backed up by something, can you say the same?
So in reality you are parroting someone else's work as well?
October 20th, 2007  
senojekips
 
 
That wasn't fair MontyB. It was very true, but not fair in his eyes, he wanted to have his sources accepted as reliable whilst writing off those of everyone else.

It's a great way to win a debate. Just tie the hands of your opponents before you start.
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October 20th, 2007  
LeEnfield
 
 
One battle that never gets talked about much is the Russian Invasion of China when they drove the Japanese out of China in WW2 in about two weeks flat. Knowing what a formidable foe the Japanese are makes this Victory even more remarkable, they then went on to invade and capture Islands along the coast are were poised to invade the Japanese mainland. This in turn was one of the reasons that the Atom bomb was used to bring the war to a quick end and stop the Russians claiming large chunks of Japan to be handed over to them for administration reasons
October 20th, 2007  
Kunikov
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
So in reality you are parroting someone else's work as well?
Pay attention, I said parroting without knowing the real context. You can quote, that's fine, but understanding the context is key. Simply throwing out numbers isn't all that useful.
October 20th, 2007  
Ollie Garchy
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunikov
Pay attention, I said parroting without knowing the real context. You can quote, that's fine, but understanding the context is key. Simply throwing out numbers isn't all that useful.

Listen to yourself...if you can. Jesus, what are you talking about? The arrogance of your words is pure satire.
October 20th, 2007  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie Garchy
Listen to yourself...if you can. Jesus, what are you talking about? The arrogance of your words is pure satire.
I don't know I am intrigued as to what a 24 year old flying the American flag knows about the context of battles fought 60 years ago between Germany and Russia that no one else knows even though they have probably read the same books.

As I have said its great Kunikov wants to be pro-Russian as differing opinions are what make discussions work but if he is not backing his "You are wrong" arguments with fact of his own then he is just trolling.

So far I really think it would be easier if he got a moderator to put a sticky post at the top of the forums that says "Kunikov says you are all wrong" that way he wouldn't have to post at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
One battle that never gets talked about much is the Russian Invasion of China when they drove the Japanese out of China in WW2 in about two weeks flat. Knowing what a formidable foe the Japanese are makes this Victory even more remarkable, they then went on to invade and capture Islands along the coast are were poised to invade the Japanese mainland. This in turn was one of the reasons that the Atom bomb was used to bring the war to a quick end and stop the Russians claiming large chunks of Japan to be handed over to them for administration reasons
Its certainly a part of the war that few have mentioned my only question is how decisive the action was given that Japan was by that stage pretty much finished and probably only months from giving up with or without the use of the atomic bomb. There is certainly no doubt that it was an impressive campaign and that it forced a decisive moment in world history.
October 20th, 2007  
Kunikov
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I don't know I am intrigued as to what a 24 year old flying the American flag knows about the context of battles fought 60 years ago between Germany and Russia that no one else knows even though they have probably read the same books.

I live in the US, I'm from the former Soviet Union. As for the books I've read, unless you can read Russian, you wouldn't have read the same ones.
October 20th, 2007  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunikov
I live in the US, I'm from the former Soviet Union. As for the books I've read, unless you can read Russian, you wouldn't have read the same ones.
You do realise books are translated/released in multiple languages I assume?

As it goes how would those books be anymore accurate on a particular subject than the English, German, French, Italian, Spanish or Chinese translation of the same book, 1000, 100,000 or 1,000,000 is exactly the same in any language.

on top of this which book would be more accurate a Russian statistical breakdown or a German one of the same battle or heres a thought perhaps they are both one sided and lacking all the information.

However no matter how you look at it if your sole knowledge on a subject is from books and anecdotal evidence then in the end you are still just parroting someone else's opinion as the only people who can lecture us on the context of these battles are those that actually were there at the time.
October 20th, 2007  
Kunikov
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
You do realise books are translated/released in multiple languages I assume?

As it goes how would those books be anymore accurate on a particular subject than the English, German, French, Italian, Spanish or Chinese translation of the same book, 1000, 100,000 or 1,000,000 is exactly the same in any language.

on top of this which book would be more accurate a Russian statistical breakdown or a German one of the same battle or heres a thought perhaps they are both one sided and lacking all the information.

However no matter how you look at it if your sole knowledge on a subject is from books and anecdotal evidence then in the end you are still just parroting someone else's opinion as the only people who can lecture us on the context of these battles are those that actually were there at the time.
Are you really this naive? Obviously books are translated, even more obvious is that the amount of books out there in Russian in regards to the "Great Patriotic War" surpass the abilities of translators and even worse the fact that many publishers are simply not interested in publishing them. I have hundreds of Soviet/Russian books, document collections, etc, that will never be translated into English. You can stop going off on tangents now. I do not proclaim myself better than anyone else, but, I will judge you based on what you write in regards to the Eastern Front. What you profess on a forum says more than enough about what you've read and how much you know. If you were a Russian, German, Spaniard, or anyone else, my opinion would solely be dictated by what you write.