More School?

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090928/ap_on_re_us/us_more_school

By LIBBY QUAID – Mon Sep 28, 9:11 am ET



WASHINGTON – Students beware: The summer vacation you just enjoyed could be sharply curtailed if President Barack Obama gets his way. Obama says American kids spend too little time in school, putting them at a disadvantage with other students around the globe.


"Now, I know longer school days and school years are not wildly popular ideas," the president said earlier this year. "Not with Malia and Sasha, not in my family, and probably not in yours. But the challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom."


The president, who has a sixth-grader and a third-grader, wants schools to add time to classes, to stay open late and to let kids in on weekends so they have a safe place to go.


"Our school calendar is based upon the agrarian economy and not too many of our kids are working the fields today," Education Secretary Arne Duncan said in a recent interview with The Associated Press.


Fifth-grader Nakany Camara is of two minds. She likes the four-week summer program at her school, Brookhaven Elementary School in Rockville, Md. Nakany enjoys seeing her friends there and thinks summer school helped boost her grades from two Cs to the honor roll.


But she doesn't want a longer school day. "I would walk straight out the door," she said.


Domonique Toombs felt the same way when she learned she would stay for an extra three hours each day in sixth grade at Boston's Clarence R. Edwards Middle School.


"I was like, `Wow, are you serious?'" she said. "That's three more hours I won't be able to chill with my friends after school."


Her school is part of a 3-year-old state initiative to add 300 hours of school time in nearly two dozen schools. Early results are positive. Even reluctant Domonique, who just started ninth grade, feels differently now. "I've learned a lot," she said.


Does Obama want every kid to do these things? School until dinnertime? Summer school? And what about the idea that kids today are overscheduled and need more time to play?
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Obama and Duncan say kids in the United States need more school because kids in other nations have more school.


"Young people in other countries are going to school 25, 30 percent longer than our students here," Duncan told the AP. "I want to just level the playing field."


While it is true that kids in many other countries have more school days, it's not true they all spend more time in school.


Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests — Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days).
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Regardless, there is a strong case for adding time to the school day. Researcher Tom Loveless of the Brookings Institution looked at math scores in countries that added math instruction time. Scores rose significantly, especially in countries that added minutes to the day, rather than days to the year.



"Ten minutes sounds trivial to a school day, but don't forget, these math periods in the U.S. average 45 minutes," Loveless said. "Percentage-wise, that's a pretty healthy increase."



In the U.S., there are many examples of gains when time is added to the school day.



Charter schools are known for having longer school days or weeks or years. For example, kids in the KIPP network of 82 charter schools across the country go to school from 7:30 a.m. to 5 p.m., more than three hours longer than the typical day. They go to school every other Saturday and for three weeks in the summer. KIPP eighth-grade classes exceed their school district averages on state tests.



In Massachusetts' expanded learning time initiative, early results indicate that kids in some schools do better on state tests than do kids at regular public schools. The extra time, which schools can add as hours or days, is for three things: core academics — kids struggling in English, for example, get an extra English class; more time for teachers; and enrichment time for kids.



Regular public schools are adding time, too, though it is optional and not usually part of the regular school day. Their calendar is pretty much set in stone. Most states set the minimum number of school days at 180 days, though a few require 175 to 179 days.



Several schools are going year-round by shortening summer vacation and lengthening other breaks.



Many schools are going beyond the traditional summer school model, in which schools give remedial help to kids who flunked or fell behind.
Summer is a crucial time for kids, especially poorer kids, because poverty is linked to problems that interfere with learning, such as hunger and less involvement by their parents.



That makes poor children almost totally dependent on their learning experience at school, said Karl Alexander, a sociology professor at Baltimore's Johns Hopkins University, home of the National Center for Summer Learning.



Disadvantaged kids, on the whole, make no progress in the summer, Alexander said. Some studies suggest they actually fall back. Wealthier kids have parents who read to them, have strong language skills and go to great lengths to give them learning opportunities such as computers, summer camp, vacations, music lessons, or playing on sports teams.



"If your parents are high school dropouts with low literacy levels and reading for pleasure is not hard-wired, it's hard to be a good role model for your children, even if you really want to be," Alexander said.



Extra time is not cheap. The Massachusetts program costs an extra $1,300 per student, or 12 percent to 15 percent more than regular per-student spending, said Jennifer Davis, a founder of the program. It received more than $17.5 million from the state Legislature last year.



The Montgomery County, Md., summer program, which includes Brookhaven, received $1.6 million in federal stimulus dollars to operate this year and next, but it runs for only 20 days.



Aside from improving academic performance, Education Secretary Duncan has a vision of schools as the heart of the community. Duncan, who was Chicago's schools chief, grew up studying alongside poor kids on the city's South Side as part of the tutoring program his mother still runs. "Those hours from 3 o'clock to 7 o'clock are times of high anxiety for parents," Duncan said. "They want their children safe. Families are working one and two and three jobs now to make ends meet and to keep food on the table."
 
The president, who has a sixth-grader and a third-grader, wants schools to add time to classes, to stay open late and to let kids in on weekends so they have a safe place to go.
Where is he going to get this money to make schools a 24/7 project? Teachers are already underpaid and over-stuffed with children. (IMHO).



would stay for an extra three hours each day in sixth grade


School until dinnertime? Summer school? And what about the idea that kids today are overscheduled and need more time to play?


7:30 a.m. to 5 p.m., more than three hours longer than the typical day. They go to school every other Saturday and for three weeks in the summer.

I am extremely against adding more school time during the day. I may not be a parent, but I've helped raise 4 kids from starting KG to 6th grade and I know they don't need any more time in school.

In our area they started having KG go all day, 5 years ago. The oldest child I watched came home every day happy as a clam going to school for half a day. The next year they changed KG to full day. The second child I watched got stuck with going to school for a full day at 5yrs old and she was horrible when she got home. She was tired and cranky and cried over anything and everything. Many times I sent her straight to nap where she slept until dinner time. (It would be nice to be able to enjoy one's children when they got home and not have to send them straight to bed). The same thing happened with twins when they started KG for a full day.

Some children and not weaned off napping by the time they get into KG either. They are not allowed to have enough nap time for their bodies at KG, even though they have a "rest" time. I can't tell you how many times one of the kids came home crying because they feel asleep on the bus and someone woke them up. Some kids actually NEED that time during the day to sleep, and not all kids sleep just 1hr. (The ones I watched were always good for a solid 2hrs, sometimes up to 3hr).

Just think, your child getting home at 5pm. An hour for dinner, an hour for HOMEWORK (are you kidding me?!) and an hour for showers, bed times, etc. To me that is sick. Freaking sick.

Yes, America needs to step it up in the learning department, but killing our kids spirits, having little to no play and family time isn't the way to do it.


While it is true that kids in many other countries have more school days, it's not true they all spend more time in school.

Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests — Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days).
I really don't think our lack of knowledge has anything to do with the amount of time per day we spend in school. I think it has to do with the way the materials are presented, the amount of students in the classrooms, and the lack of help they are getting at home.

A teacher can only do so much and be there so often. Many parents seem to think it's only the teachers job to teach their children everything when really, they should be being taught in the home and during breaks (summer/winter/spring) too.
 
Where is he going to get this money to make schools a 24/7 project? Teachers are already underpaid and over-stuffed with children. (IMHO).
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Another reason why I have a night job waitressing....I see it every day...school districts drill us teachers, so we can drill the freak out of our little ones....sad...and here we have a dumb ass of a president wanting to screw things up even more....
 
So Obama wants to ADD more hours to the school year despite the fact that we already have more than those who are out scoring us? Seems to me adding more hours won't do anything positive . . . I can think of a number of things that can be done - such as raising the educational budget so schools can afford to pay teachers a decent salary and have more/better supplies. It's kind of like sticking a fork in the elctrical outlet over and over again - at some point you learn to do something else, if not you die or go brain dead.
 
I'm not particularly impressed with the education plan, save for the repealing of NCLB and an increase in funding.

Howver, I will note that most schools that are outscoring Americans are going year round.
 
I'm not particularly impressed with the education plan, save for the repealing of NCLB and an increase in funding.

Howver, I will note that most schools that are outscoring Americans are going year round.
I don't disagree we should go year round - I totally disagree with having longer days and going on the weekends...total B.S. (IMHO).
 
I definitely disagree w/year round schooling....it makes it harder on teachers, students, and parents...it throws us off guard in lessons and it simply well........."Sucks"......
 
I definitely disagree w/year round schooling....it makes it harder on teachers, students, and parents...it throws us off guard in lessons and it simply well........."Sucks"......
Kids forget too much during the summer break....

We'd still have breaks, 2 week, 3 week breaks.
 
The most successful students don't play around during the summer anyway. If the guys can't get it right with the current number of hours in school keep them there until they get it right.
But this problem is so big and has been ignored for so long that I don't think anyone really knows where to begin.
Teacher salaries?
More "propaganda" about the value of education? (seems like for whatever reason, getting an education just isn't "cool" enough)
Giving teachers a LOT more authority in the classroom?
Where to begin....
 
I don't disagree we should go year round - I totally disagree with having longer days and going on the weekends...total B.S. (IMHO).
I know, at least with my high school, that it wasn't the amount of time in school as it was the time we were there. School starts at 7:19 AM. And while you may say that teaches teenagers responsibility, etc. I'll tell you right now: It doesn't. But, the district can't afford to back everything up an hour to start at a more reasonable time.

I don't like the "testing down your throat" method that's been going on lately, with funding based on test scores and whatnot. Instead of teaching students what they actually need to know now, they just get taught what's on the test. And if they already know what's on the test, it's six months of review to prepare for the test they'll already do well on that could have been spent learning new things.

It's a vicious cycle.
 
I don't like the "testing down your throat" method that's been going on lately, with funding based on test scores and whatnot. Instead of teaching students what they actually need to know now, they just get taught what's on the test. And if they already know what's on the test, it's six months of review to prepare for the test they'll already do well on that could have been spent learning new things.

It's a vicious cycle.
I agree. Teachers aren't a fan of funding based on test scores either. It's the government that is screwing that up.

And I second what tomtom said, they just want teachers to become full time babysitters.
 
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