Misjudging War - Page 2

March 24th, 2005  
what about when napoleon decided to attack russia... during the winter. its been said that the greatest ally the russians have is winter.
March 24th, 2005  
I would have to say that the War of 1812 has to be the USA's worst judged war.
The US thought that with the weak forces that Britain had stationed in British North America (aka Canada), that victory for their army would be, according to one of their leading politicans,Henry Clay, a 'walk in the woods'
March 24th, 2005  
Charge 7
I'll agree with that. What was it? 20 US ships vs. 360 British? Not the best of odds. Still, fortunately for us, Britain was preoccupied with Napolean and we got out of it by the skin of our teeth. The History Channel recently did a fine show about The War of 1812 saying essentially what we just agreed on.

Little known fact: ever wonder why the war has such a silly name as "The War of 1812"? It's because it was the war immediately after "The War of 1776" which was what Americans originally called The War of Independance (AKA The Revolutionary War). It wasn't until many years after the American Revolution that it was named thus. There are still gravestones here in Vermont of soldiers from that era that state something like "Eli Smyth, Sergeant, The War of 1776". Nobody ever came up with a better name for The War of 1812 so it remained named the same as it was originally.
March 25th, 2005  
The War of 1812 was fought to force Britain to recognize the rights of American sailors and merchants, to force Britain to stop arming the indians, and supposedly most of all, to take Canada and force Britain out of North America (I always thought this was a secondary objective). The war succeeding in ending impressment and Britain agreed to stop arming Indians. The Great Lakes were de-militarized and the British abandoned all forts east of the Mississippi. The War of 1812 was the best thing to happen in British/American relations. It caused both sides to wake up and realize that they were both dependent on trade with each other. This was a victory for American in the fact that Britain held all the cards but yet we managed to walk away with something, but this was also a victory for Britain in that they were still able to trade with America even after their repeated violations of our rights as a nation.
March 26th, 2005  

Topic: British Misjudged the Japs

Well its common in most countries.. Brits did that in Malaya .. They thought the feeble bodied Japs wont last long in Malaya .. But to the worlds utter surprise ..fortress Singapore fell without firing a shot ... and that to the Japs used only 11 Inf divisions for the conquest of this side of the Pacific... Truth is stranger than fiction
March 27th, 2005  
Originally Posted by Damien435
. The war succeeding in ending impressment and Britain agreed to stop arming Indians. The Great Lakes were de-militarized and the British abandoned all forts east of the Mississippi..
No and no
The war didn't stop impressment, the end of the war against France did that, we didn't have the need for sailors any more. Its not referred too in the Treaty of Ghent.
Also the British didn't agree to stop arming the Indians in the Treaty, its also not mentioned. Though it should be pointed out that the British government wasn't even arming the Indians before the war. Any British weapons they had were supplied by local traders in British North America (aka Canada)
The Great Lakes weren't de-militarized, and the British didn't abandon any forts that they had held before the war.
March 27th, 2005  
Charge 7
The Americans won control of the Detroit frontier region when Oliver Hazard Perry's ships destroyed the British fleet on Lake Erie (Sept. 10, 1813). This victory forced the British to retreat eastward from the Detroit region, and on Oct. 5, 1813, they were overtaken and defeated at the battle of the Thames (Moraviantown) by an American army under the command of Gen. William Henry Harrison.
March 27th, 2005  
1). Pakistan's folly in initiating Op. Gibraltar and subsequently, Op. Grand Slam in 1965.

The first was intended to sow the seeds of a revolution against India in Kashmir - it was done by infiltrators spreading rumours, attempting to take over radio broadcast stations and proclaim Kashmiri independence and sabotaging lines of communication of the Indian Army.

When that failed to incite popular riot, Pakistan sent in its regular troops to Kashmir under Op. Grand Slam. They believed that the Indian response would remain confined to Kashmir. Instead, India attacked along the international border in the Punjab to relieve the pressure in Kashmir and after 3 weeks of fighting, the US and the USSR brokered a cease-fire in which both sides returned the territory they captured.

Some accounts suggest that Pakistan believed that the Indian response would be muted because earlier that year, a border skirmish between the Pakistan Army and the Indian border police in the marshlands of Gujarat resulted in Pakistan capturing a couple of posts. They misjudged the Indian resolve to hold Kashmir along the existing Ceasefire Line on the basis of this incident and the prevalent belief among the Pakistani General Staff that 1 Pakistani soldier is the equal to 10 Indian soldiers!

2). Pakistan's attempt to infiltrate and hold unoccupied peaks in the Kargil sector of Kashmir in 1999. Prior to this incident that led to a 3 month conflict (which resulted in Pakistani withdrawal from the posts they occupied), both Indian and Pakistani soldiers would withdraw from their posts in this high altitude area during the winter months and reoccupy their posts after the thaw.

After the 1998 nuclear tests by both India and Pakistan, Pakistan believed that India would not contest their occupation of these peaks for fear of the conflict spiralling to a nuclear exchange or even if they did, international pressure would force India to back down. Given the logistical difficulties in dislodging the enemy from the mountains (the heights were generally between 15,000 and 20,000 ft, with sharp ridges and no cover), it was believed that Pakistan could hold on till the next winter and that their occupation would be made permanent.

After early reverses sustained in hasty frontal attacks, the Indian Army brought in the artillery to an extent unseen before in the Indo-Pak scenario, and helped by the IAF in destroying Pakistan's logistical nodes, recaptured the main peaks before Pakistan withdrew to its territory under American diplomatic and Indian military pressure.

In both cases, the Pakistani aggression was based on very optimistic estimates of Indian reaction.
March 30th, 2005  
melkor the first

Topic: misjudgement

I think the Classic is Croesus consulting the Oracle at Delphi about going to war with a neighboring state(Persia?) and receiving the answer that "if you go to war a great empire will be destroyed" whereupon he did and his empire was destroyed.
July 23rd, 2005  
How many times have conflicts started with the idea that they will be over by Christmas, the only thing is no one ever says just which Christmas.