Korean artillery exchange rises tensions
Good uncle "china" wouldn't allow...
Prapor
Active member
West should stop being so scared of China. China is much weaker than you guys apparently think. Like USSR. A colossus on clay legs. All their internal conflicts and unrest. All one got to do is play it all up, the Tibetans, Uighurs, Mongols, the Falun Gong, language issues, Cantonese vs Mandarin, Tibetan vs Mandarin. That Great Wall is a house of cards, honestly.
Frankly, if the West was more forceful with them, they'd step back. We Russians and they have much in common: we both respect strength, force. Why I respect Chechens, for example. Strong people. If the West shows its strength to both China and North Korea, shows who is in charge on Earth, once and for all, that will be that. And the West can do that. Believe me. Because EU, USA, don't have the issues China and Russia have. We can't afford to go toe to toe with you guys, neither them nor us. That is the truth. Putin and Wen would retreat if Obama exerted enough pressure.
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Yes, too late to correct myself there (at the post above)
China, would not dare to get involved to sort NK themselves, also, they would be afraid of another conflict on they doorstep, so will say: "play nice!" also "nobody is going to fight"..
Honestly China, unwillingly is providing a way for NK to do as it pleases...
China, would not dare to get involved to sort NK themselves, also, they would be afraid of another conflict on they doorstep, so will say: "play nice!" also "nobody is going to fight"..
Honestly China, unwillingly is providing a way for NK to do as it pleases...
Yin717
Active member
While this is true their forces are some of the largest in the world! (Not sure if bigger than US but I will have to check). My history, who I will admit is from Australia who don't have the biggest military in the world, her father is a general in the military. They had a Chinese general come over who told them about the training. Apparently in the Australian military there is about 60,000 officers. That is how many they had in one class in China. They're numbers are overwhelming. Admittably source isn't reliable but I'm sure quick number searches could tell you something similar. They are also very well trained and have amazing equipment. But if we all united then we may be able to do something. But China are still a meddling force. However, as you said the USSR had splits within in it and I just believe it is only a matter of time before China has major divisions within itself.
Prapor
Active member
Numbers are not everything. China sent a million soldiers into Korea in that war. What were they good for? Running at enemy fortifications, getting cut down by South Korean and American machine guns line after line of them?
Why, again, other Russian posters here will be mad at me for saying this, but I have great respect for General Jokhar Dudayev. With a handful of men he managed to defend Grozny against overwhelming Russian forces.
Then, there is General Murat Kulakhmetov: in 2008, with his 600 Russian peacekeepers, and a few hundred Ossetian militiamen, he kept 10,000 Georgian troops busy for two days in Tskhinval, till main Russian forces got there.
Hell, remember the 300 Spartans
My point is, as great Russian military strategist, possibly our greatest of all time, Alexander Vasilyevich Suvorov, said, quality always defeats quantity. This is a man who led his troops over the Alps to fight the Italians!
NATO has technology that China or Russia cannot dream of. You don't need to send waves of troops into battle: you can blow things up from the other side of the world. That is your main advantage, and it is a big one.
Korean Seaboy
Active member
The shells were 100+, not 200+
I was actually near the area (though not too near) because I was on visiting a relative. I heard some loud bullsh**, but thought nothing of it. Life in a city does make one not reactive to loud sounds
I was actually near the area (though not too near) because I was on visiting a relative. I heard some loud bullsh**, but thought nothing of it. Life in a city does make one not reactive to loud sounds
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Yeah the figures are down but the death toll is up.
They're having trouble getting accountability because some of the dead have been blown to pieces.
We have one Medal of Honor recipient. I think it was awarded to a Marine Sergeant who was about to go on leave and was waiting for his boat at the docks when the artillery fell. He ran through the falling artillery to get back to his unit. He lost a leg to shrapnel and was not stabilized fast enough and died of his wounds.
It's what I heard so don't take it as gospel.
EDIT: Confirmed
http://www.rokmc.mil.kr/board/view.jsp?bbsId=news&seqno=93345 (Korean)
Two Marines have been awarded the Medal of Honor.
They're having trouble getting accountability because some of the dead have been blown to pieces.
We have one Medal of Honor recipient. I think it was awarded to a Marine Sergeant who was about to go on leave and was waiting for his boat at the docks when the artillery fell. He ran through the falling artillery to get back to his unit. He lost a leg to shrapnel and was not stabilized fast enough and died of his wounds.
It's what I heard so don't take it as gospel.
EDIT: Confirmed
http://www.rokmc.mil.kr/board/view.jsp?bbsId=news&seqno=93345 (Korean)
Two Marines have been awarded the Medal of Honor.
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perseus
Active member
NK has friends after all. Looks like Sarah Palin wants to be an ally.
Why not? All the lunatics in one place!
Why not? All the lunatics in one place!
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Goes in the same category as Obama's "57 States" comment.
From what I have read South Korea fired at disputed waters which both sides claim during their exercises and North Korea fired at the Island which is close to the disputed waters as an ante-up kinda response... I doubt South Korea would escalate this skirmish because North Koreans have enough artillery within reach of Seoul to lob 400,000 to 500,000 shells per hour now thats enough incentive for the South to be restraint in its response, I believe the South Korean defense establishment must not sleep well at night seeing how close their capital is to North Korean artillery and how easily the North can decimate Seoul.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
The "artillery exercise" excuse is simply that, an excuse.
That artillery live fire training is pretty regular. Hardly even an exercise.
Also North Korea's idea of "disputed" is that it believes that the general shape of the DMZ should be maintained at sea as well, which would mean these two islands would be North Korean territory. Unfortunately for them, at the end of the Korean War, they had no control of the seas or any of the islands so it doesn't really fly.
That artillery live fire training is pretty regular. Hardly even an exercise.
Also North Korea's idea of "disputed" is that it believes that the general shape of the DMZ should be maintained at sea as well, which would mean these two islands would be North Korean territory. Unfortunately for them, at the end of the Korean War, they had no control of the seas or any of the islands so it doesn't really fly.
Wolf
Active member
Nevertheless, that's still funny.
SGT Long
Active member
Roh, at least, did the right thing.
Pity Jimmy Carter didnt do something similar after Rhodesia and Iran.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Which Roh?
We had two. Though the most recent one went with the "Noh" spelling.
We had two. Though the most recent one went with the "Noh" spelling.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
This I agree with.
I have a question about this, can China afford the loss in economic revenue from Western retaliation should they choose to defend North Korea?
One of things I have learnt in life is that those with the most to lose tend not to risk all on states with nothing to offer.
Maybe she can see it from her back yard as well?
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perseus
Active member
To be fair to Hitler, he seemed to risk an awful lot for little in return from Mussolini.
Yin717
Active member
Fair point. But would the West want to lose ties with China over defending South Korea? I know Britain would end up all too good if our ties broke. That's why David Cameron is trying to make some deal with them.
mini11113
New Member
It's the same dilemma here in Australia, we have huge economic ties with China, especially in regards to natural resources. Yet seeing as we have military alliances with the US and, correct me if I'm wrong, South Korea, we would almost certainly support the South in the event of a war. It would lead to a rather awkward situation, especially if China does decide to support North Korea.
I'm also curious as to who, if anyone, the Russians would support. As we all know, they were one of the North's biggest supporters back in the Korean War. but with such a different political climate, would they support the South now, or stick with the North, or even just stay out of the whole thing all together?
I'm also curious as to who, if anyone, the Russians would support. As we all know, they were one of the North's biggest supporters back in the Korean War. but with such a different political climate, would they support the South now, or stick with the North, or even just stay out of the whole thing all together?