It's done: U.S., Poland agree to missile defense deal




 
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August 14th, 2008  
Lunatik
 
 

Topic: It's done: U.S., Poland agree to missile defense deal


Poland and the United States reached an agreement Thursday that will see a battery of American missiles established inside Poland - a plan that has infuriated Russia and threatened to exacerbate tensions with the region's communist-era master.

Prime Minister Donald Tusk of Poland- in an interview televised on news channel TVN24 - said the United States had agreed to help augment Poland's defenses with Patriot missiles in exchange for placing 10 missile interceptors in the Eastern European country.

"We have crossed the Rubicon," he said, referring to the U.S. consent in meeting Poland's demands.

Tusk said the deal, signed late Thursday in Warsaw, includes a "mutual commitment" between the two nations to come to each other's assistance "in case of trouble." The deal still needs approval from Poland's government and Parliament and from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. The clause on mutual assistance appeared to be a reference to potential challenges from Moscow, which says the missile shield represents a threat to Russia. Washington insists, however, it is not meant for Russia but instead is aimed at protecting Europe from attacks by countries in the Middle East.

Moscow had threatened to redirect missiles toward Poland if the country agreed to host elements of the U.S. missile defense shield. On Thursday, a Russian lawmaker, Konstantin Kosachev, warned that the deal would also spark "a real rise in tensions in Russian-American relations," the Interfax news agency reported.

The Russian military incursion into Georgia, along with its bombing of Georgian military outposts and airfields, has rattled former Soviet satellites in Eastern Europe.

Poland said the conflict in Georgia underlined its need for U.S. military assistance if it were to cooperate on the U.S. missile defense shield.
"I am satisfied," Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski said after the U.S. negotiator, John Rood, and his Polish partner, Andrzej Kremer, signed the agreement at the Foreign Ministry. "Only evil people should be afraid of our agreement."

The United States has also reached an agreement with the Czech government to place a radar component of the shield in that country. That deal still needs approval from Czech Parliament.

The Polish prime minister said the agreement Thursday for the countries to come to one another's defense was "a step toward real security for Poland," as it would take too long for NATO to respond if Poland were threatened. It would take "days, weeks to start that machinery," Tusk said.

Tusk said the U.S. met the Polish demands for a permanent presence of Patriot missiles, which "will be able to effectively protect our territory."
The deal was reached after more than 18 months of back-and-forth, often terse, negotiations.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/...ope/poland.php
August 14th, 2008  
03USMC
 
 
So will Poland be next on Putins hit parade?
August 15th, 2008  
The Other Guy
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
So will Poland be next on Putins hit parade?
Doubtful. Ukraine's in the middle, and Poland is ready for a possible attack, the probable reason behind this move.
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August 15th, 2008  
Lunatik
 
 
What do they mean by:

Quote:
Moscow had threatened to redirect missiles toward Poland if the country agreed to host elements of the U.S. missile defense shield.
I hope they're not referring to nuclear missiles? And how do we know the missiles aren't already pointing at whereever the Russians want? If we don't count the small Russian enclave (Kaliningrad) by the Baltic Sea, there's Belarus, Lithuania and Ukraine in between Poland and Russia. In other words, hundreds of kilometers! So, how is a defensive SAM system stationed in Poland a threat to Russia?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik
So, how is a defensive SAM system stationed in Poland a threat to Russia?
Nevermind. Just found the answer to that last question:

"America keeps saying its anti-missile system will not target Russia and to suggest otherwise would be absurd because Russia can overcome it. Well, Russia could overcome it today but what about in 15 years' time, when it is not just two facilities but a global system?

Russia would have nothing to fear if it was just the anti-missile base in Poland and the radar site in the Czech Republic but if the idea of a global anti-missile system becomes a reality, the nuclear capability of Russia, China and other countries will be undermined.

So when the Americans say they are not targeting Russia, they are right, but when Russian generals say that the US is targeting Russia, they are also right. It is two sides of the same coin.

When [Russian President Vladimir] Putin criticises the US aggressively over its anti-missile system plans, I can imagine the faces of China's leaders, sitting quietly in Beijing and happily nodding approval because Putin is fighting for them against a system none of them want. Putin reflects the views of all those who are not US allies."



Quoted from BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6726839.stm
August 15th, 2008  
A Can of Man
 
 
"The Polish prime minister said the agreement Thursday for the countries to come to one another's defense was "a step toward real security for Poland," as it would take too long for NATO to respond if Poland were threatened. It would take "days, weeks to start that machinery," Tusk said."

This is true, but if Poland got serious problems from Russia, Old Europe would respond because if they have a Russia-run country right beside them, that WILL be their problem. But don't expect a response that's fast.
Might turn out this way (if it comes down to it): Polish and Russian forces slug it out until both sides are depleted and there's not a whole lot of things left to blow up. NATO troops show up, defeat a combat ineffective Russia and claim to have saved the day. The war ends, they make excessive demands for being "heroes."
August 15th, 2008  
The Other Guy
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck
"The Polish prime minister said the agreement Thursday for the countries to come to one another's defense was "a step toward real security for Poland," as it would take too long for NATO to respond if Poland were threatened. It would take "days, weeks to start that machinery," Tusk said."

This is true, but if Poland got serious problems from Russia, Old Europe would respond because if they have a Russia-run country right beside them, that WILL be their problem. But don't expect a response that's fast.
Might turn out this way (if it comes down to it): Polish and Russian forces slug it out until both sides are depleted and there's not a whole lot of things left to blow up. NATO troops show up, defeat a combat ineffective Russia and claim to have saved the day. The war ends, they make excessive demands for being "heroes."
And Poland is screwed again. Woudn't surprise me.

But then again you'd have expected the British and French to jump to the aid of Poland in WWII. The had a treaty wiht the Poles promising full support if the Germans were to invade.

Berlin was bombed with pamphlets. For crying out loud, it took Britain 4 days to declare war.

The Poles don't trust anyone in Europe, and rightfully so.
August 15th, 2008  
Lunatik
 
 
I think Russia would probably go nuclear the moment it realized it's going to be defeated by NATO in a conventional war. A defeat in Poland would weaken Kremlin so much that there'd be a new massive collapse, this time of the Russian Federation. There are many oppressed peoples throughout the greater Siberia region that would love to become independent states; from Chechnya all the way to Yakutia. Moscow would never let that happen.

And the alternative, a nuclear war, sounds just like the end of the world...
August 15th, 2008  
A Can of Man
 
 
As long as we don't threaten the survival of Russia, I doubt it'd go nuclear.
August 18th, 2008  
Ski8799
 
 
Isn't this shield system a defensive system? if specifically programmed for defensive uses only, the only problem that Putin should have is the lack of trust which is implied by the US by placing the system near its Western border.

Also noteworthy is the growing list of rogue states and their increasing ability in obtaining WMDs, it's not 1961 where the only real threat was the USSR.
August 18th, 2008  
AikiRooster
 
 
true but most are probably affiliated with em
 


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