Israel rightfully own the West Bank . - Page 7




 
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June 10th, 2011  
r.fox
 
 
the isrealies acquired the land in the unprovoked invasion of the Palestinian land in the six day war. as the US (and the UN?) does not accept isreali claim to the land, so i personally do not accept their claim to the land.
June 12th, 2011  
84RFK
 
 
For those who are interested, just google "National water carrier of Israel" and "Headwater diversion plan" on the net, it gives a hint about some other factors.
September 23rd, 2011  
VDKMS
 
How far is one allowed to go back in time to prove he is right?
Israel ha no right to occupy the West Bank? But what about the land Russia still has from WWII countries? What about China, can it claim Taiwan or can Taiwan claim China? What does a country (or countries) has to pay when it attacks a state and loses the war? What about the Indians in the US and the Aboriginals in Australia , must they get their land back? Or the Amazon tribes who were destroyed by the Brazilians. If Turkey and Iran are allowed to invade Iraq to punish the Kurds is Israel then allowed to invade Palestine to punish Palestinian attackers? Doesn't the whole middle eastern problems come down to this expression : "The pot calling the kettle black" ?
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September 24th, 2011  
MontyB
 
 
But Russia has in the last 20 or so years lost the land annexed during WW2, Chinese expansionism is currently in check and I am not sure about Tibet but I would suggest that Taiwan is kind of a special case in that technically it is Chinese (it is not like we dumped a bunch of Europeans in Taiwan and laid claim to it based on a 2000 year old fairy story) however it is controlled by an anti-communist faction of Chinese.

My recollection tells me that Turkey and Iran are not allowed to invade Iraq and have not done so however if Kurds jump the border and kill Iranians or Turks then I see no problem in them being chased back and killed or captured.

But the problem you have here is not one of nation attacking another it that a nation has been transplanted onto someone else's land which has then set out on expansionist policies at the expense of the Palestinians so I guess the closest example of this would be European expansion of 200-300 years ago which has now been recognised as wrong and incredibly destructive which is why we don't do it any more or support nations that are still doing it.

So rather than it being a case of "the pot calling the kettle black" I think it is more a case that nations have learn't from their mistakes in the hopes that they wont repeat them.
September 24th, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Russia lost their annexed land because the USSR fel apart. Poland and Romania didn't get their land back.
The Turks and Iranians regularly attack Kurdish villages (the Iraqi president complained about that recently at the UN). I agree with you on chasing attackers back to their base, but bombing a village with artillery fire or from the air is something different.
The Palestinians must get a state and expanding Jewish settlements is wrong. But you also must understand the Israeli side. They gave back southern Libanon and got back rockets from Hezbollah. They gave back the Gaza strip and got back rockets from Hamas. What will they get back if the give the West Bank to the Palestinians? Peace or rockets from Fatah?
After WWII the UN thought they had the solution, a two state solution. The Israelis accepted and the Palestinans and the Arabs refused. Worse, they started to attack several times during the following decades with as result the loss of the Golan Heights , Gaza and the Sinai plus the West Bank, and now they want it all back as nothing had happenend.
Lots of Palestinians fled or were expelled from the newly founded Irael, but the Arab countries also expelled a lot of Jews.
I think a peacefull solution is far away and lots of trouble is on its way.
One last thing, how treat the Arab countries the Palestinian fugitives? The ones who stayed in Israel are much better off.
September 24th, 2011  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Russia lost their annexed land because the USSR fel apart. Poland and Romania didn't get their land back.
The Turks and Iranians regularly attack Kurdish villages (the Iraqi president complained about that recently at the UN). I agree with you on chasing attackers back to their base, but bombing a village with artillery fire or from the air is something different.
The Palestinians must get a state and expanding Jewish settlements is wrong. But you also must understand the Israeli side. They gave back southern Libanon and got back rockets from Hezbollah. They gave back the Gaza strip and got back rockets from Hamas. What will they get back if the give the West Bank to the Palestinians? Peace or rockets from Fatah?
After WWII the UN thought they had the solution, a two state solution. The Israelis accepted and the Palestinans and the Arabs refused. Worse, they started to attack several times during the following decades with as result the loss of the Golan Heights , Gaza and the Sinai plus the West Bank, and now they want it all back as nothing had happenend.
Lots of Palestinians fled or were expelled from the newly founded Irael, but the Arab countries also expelled a lot of Jews.
I think a peacefull solution is far away and lots of trouble is on its way.
One last thing, how treat the Arab countries the Palestinian fugitives? The ones who stayed in Israel are much better off.
See that is the mistake you are making you seem to think the UN's decision in 1948 was the right one when in reality it was a limp wristed one when the right decision would have been to put all those new arrivals of non-middle eastern decent back on a boat to Europe where they all had their homes and roots.

But you are correct peace is a long way off because as long as Palestinians have no borders Israel can continue colonising Palestinian land with impunity it is that simple, as long as the words keep flowing and the goal posts keep moving Israel can keep building settlements and then claiming ownership.
September 25th, 2011  
VDKMS
 
I can understand your point of view. A land with few jews and many Arabs gets invaded (legally and illegally) by many jews and keep confiscating their land. That is also the current view of many nations and I do not dispute that. But when you go back to the foundation of Israel after WWII that view was very different. Lots of nations saw what happenend with the jews in Germany and nations occupied by Germany. Millions were massacred. Whole families destroyed. Most survivors didn't want to live there anymore with citizens living nearby concentration camps and claming they didn't know what happenend there. Then it is completely normal that they wanted to go where almost every jew was going to : Israel, the land of their ancesters. During WWII the arabs were supportive of the Nazi regime. So, after the war not many nations had a high opinion of the arabs. That's why my first sentence of this tread was : How far is one allowed to go back in time to prove he is right?
Another point that I like to make is that the arabs not only want the West Bank as a palestinian state but also the destruction of Israel. Iran said once that Israel must be wiped of the map. Is it possible to make peace with someone who wants to destroy you???
September 25th, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Another point that I like to make is that the arabs not only want the West Bank as a palestinian state but also the destruction of Israel. Iran said once that Israel must be wiped of the map. Is it possible to make peace with someone who wants to destroy you???
The Israelis should never have been put in a position where they have to make a peace with the Palestinians, they they have no legal or moral right to be in Palestine in the first place.

No doubt there were a few Belgians who had similar feelings towards the German's in WWII. There's nothing immoral about wanting what is rightfully yours.
September 25th, 2011  
Panzercracker
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prapor
I

I think the Palestinians have a right cause... But in a way, Israel does too. Both feel they are defending their land, their home
In what way is Palestine a jewish home?
September 25th, 2011  
lvcabbie
 
 
Let's get to the heart of the problem ---
Israel is a DEMOCRATIC society where all religions are tolerated and the people have to right to determine their own fate.
Gaza and The West Bank are under the TYRANNICAL control of religious leaders who tolerate no other religion than Islam and do not allow the common people to determine their own fate.

Why should the Democracy be wiped out to be replaced by the Tyranny?
Then, look at what the people of Israel have done with their land as compared to what the "Palestinians" have done with theirs. Look what the Arabs and Muslims have done with ALL the lands they control!!!!
 


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