Israel rightfully own the West Bank . - Page 14




 
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October 5th, 2011  
moshe
 

Topic: Middle East "Real Estate" ... Israel's relationship to Samaria


Modern Israel is not a Torah based Republic. A Republic does not equal to a classic Greek style city state like Athenian democracy. Discussing the "classic" Torah definitions of terms requires weighing the notion of "covenant". In Hebrew this word is brit. The 1st word of the Torah holds within its 6 letters the words brit fire! Basically the term brit means "alliance". Israel's geography being the exact opposite of the United States. The latter has 2 major oceans for borders and 2 benign neighbors. Israel is open to invasion from all sides including from the sea! All independent states ever to rule over this piece of geography have sought international alliances. Modern Israel is no different. The Arab effort to internationally isolate the Jewish state serves as a strong proof to this most basic political reality.

In classic terms: the brit constitution of the Torah Republic establishes a conditional contract by which the covenanted peoples enjoy a "blessing" as opposed to a "curse" to dwell upon the lands. The Covenant People agrees to rule this oath sworn real estate with justice, to be straight in business, and to educate the next generation in these basic conditions by which the Covenant People enjoy a contract with Heaven to dwell in the oath/sworn lands.

These classic terms bear very little if any resemblance in the post 1948 modern Israeli state!!! Still the Koran makes no mention of the brit concept. If all the prophets of the Hebrew Bible taught the brit faith and Mohammed claims to be of a prophet of the line from the Hebrew Bible ... then you would think that that dude would know something about a Torah brit?!!! The Jews of Medina asked Mohammed 3 questions: [1] what's a Torah brit? [2] upon what is a Torah brit "cut'' upon? [3] what 3 national britot did the nation of Israel "cut'' in the life time of Moses? B/c Mohammed could not answer even one of them, the Jews of Medina called this dude a false prophet and Mohammed responded by murdering all the Jews of Medina.
October 5th, 2011  
Panzercracker
 
Moshe that was a nice attempt to derail the discussion from its proper course.

The point here is that Israel was built by stealing from Palestinians and we're discussing if Israel is entitled to keep what it stole.
October 5th, 2011  
moshe
 
Panzercracker using loaded terms like "steal" reveals both hostility and ignorance. Name me a Palestinian capital, or currency? You can't b/c it has never existed in human history. News Paper experts ... go read a book and learn. Jordan annexed Samaria prior to losing it to the Israelis in 1967. That's a historical fact. So too is that the Jerusalem Post prior to 1948 was called the Palestine Post! Ooops ignorance totally sucks eggs.
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October 5th, 2011  
moshe
 
Bunks political rhetoric and propaganda bull ****.
October 6th, 2011  
Panzercracker
 
The issue is that your people (Jews) came into Palestine and kicked Palestinians out of their homes to live in them, to this end it does not matter who acknowledged Israel, what conventions ratify its existence and no amount of lawyering on your part will change that fact.

Jews stole the property of people who already lived there and nothing changes this fact and based on this fact alone Israel has no moral right to continue in the shape it does.

Also yes this makes Israeli Jews thieves.

Post scriptum.

I never hid my hostility towards Israel, i'm not hostile because of some supposed ignorance though i'm hostile because when Jews came to Palestine and in the name of the bible and various foreign conventions started murdering locals out of their livelyhoods i decided its wrong, when the same people and their families started defending their actions like you, by lawyering instead of adressing the immorality of the issue i became an enemy of Israel, its people and all it stands for, its basically a media conscious Third Reich.

The nature of Israel is not a nature of conventions but rather basic morals, is it OK to build and maintain Israel on Arab property?

I have to admit that i dont really like Arabs for a variety of reasons mild racism among them but they're people, they had homes and lives and Jews took it all away because they could, so Moshe yes Israeli Jews are thieves, religious racists and occupants.

Of course there's a fair share of decent normal Jews who just want to live out their lives but it does not change the fact that Israel is built on stolen and occupied property and deeply rooted in religious mumbo jumbo and holocaust guilt trips both used as justifications for the theft.
October 6th, 2011  
r.fox
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
I'm from Belgium but I live in Spain.
i see thanks for clearing that up
October 6th, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshe
Panzercracker using loaded terms like "steal" reveals both hostility and ignorance.
No, it reveals a desire to "tell it like it is" You may read it as "The unpleasant truth"
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshe
Name me a Palestinian capital, or currency? You can't b/c it has never existed in human history. News Paper experts ... go read a book and learn.
And what exactly has that to do with who "owns" the land? Read the previous posts and you'll see that your points have all been shown to have nothing to do with the subject. Australian aboriginals never had a Sovereign state, currency, common language or traditions, or anything else of this nature but it was still judged that they are the legal owners of the land.

Whatever attempted diversions you claim there are Internationally recognised legal findings that refute them based on the Judgments of the ICJ and UN.

Quote:
Source: http://www.israellawresourcecenter.o...ides/sgil3.htm
#8. ILLEGAL MILITARY OCCUPATION: The current Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories is illegal. Military actions and occupations are considered legal only if they are based on self-defense (as Israel claims) or are designed to benefit the native population of the occupied areas, but it is now clear that Israel's occupation is illegal because Israeli implementation of it clearly is about:
  • (1) Acquisition of land into Israel by force, and
  • (2) Economic exploitation of the occupied areas via building up de facto Annexation on occupied lands --
    • (A) Extensive modification of local laws, and
    • (B) Building Israeli settlements on occupied lands (illegal population transfer),
    • (C) Building separation barrier not on border but through Palestinian communities displacing over 200,000 Palestinian civilians separating them from their families, work, schools, hospitals, etc.
  • (3) Inhumane suppression of rebellion is implemented through --
    • (A) Practice of Collective Punishment, and
    • (B) Extensive violations of Palestinian Human Rights.
All 7 of these policy actions are illegal according to international law (see details below), which thus makes the occupation itself illegal. Press HERE for more details and quotes from the law concerning the legality of Israel's occupation.
October 6th, 2011  
grey shadow
 

Topic: Zionism's Useful Idiots.


That's taxpaying US citizens.

You're useful idiots for the Zionists in Washington and Tel Aviv. Useful because your hard-earned paychecks can be harvested to pay for war and mass murder in the Middle East, idiots because you don't do anything about it. It's easier, less hassle, and besides Joe Taxpayer doesn't really seem to care one way or the other if he's lied to, told the truth straight up, or kept in the dark entirely. He's essentially imperturbable, or maybe semi-comatose. So long as the ultimate cost, in lives and hard cash, remains an abstraction in the short term, well, nobody on Main Street's going to complain too much.

But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger. Of course, the average American -- the useful idiot for Zionism, the guy who unconsciously donates part of his paycheck to Israel every year -- he's immersed in an entertainment fog, the modern equivalent of Roman bread and circuses, so he's essentially clueless to what's going on. Since he rarely ventures beyond Fox, “the Ministry of Disinformation”, for his "news," he knows nothing about Zionist control of not only the White House, but also Congress and the very media he's passively consuming. He's a blinkered cash cow.

An immensely wealthy and powerful republic has been hijacked by a small cabal of individuals, all of them unelected and therefore unresponsive to public pressure, This small cabal, consists of the powerful pro-Israel lobby in the United States, which advances Israeli interests by pushing for U.S. aid and protection to Israel, and, currently, by pressing for a war against Iraq, which again will serve Israeli interests. This lobby has not only helped control media debate and made congress into “Israeli occupied territory”; it has seen to it that numerous officials with “dual loyalties” occupy strategic decision-making positions in the administration.

The Israel-firsters in the administration, pursue political power not in order to make the US a better place, to right wrongs or to fight inequality, but to promote Israel's pre-eminence in the Middle East, to confine Palestinians to a couple of Bantustans or, better still, engineer their expulsion to Jordan. In other words, chew up US treasure and kill American kids who thought they joined the military to defend their country. Israel, and the racist colonialist mentality of the Zionists, is all that matters. It's currently what the foreign policy of the United States is all about. You pay dearly for Israeli ethnic cleansing. Meanwhile, by default or mere stupidity and ignorance, the American people remain useful idiots for Zionism. "You give impotent people with evil intentions the power to represent you," Wilhelm Reich wrote. "Only too late do you realize that again and again you are being defrauded."

Now's the time to stop the fraud.

But I don't know if the useful idiots of Zionism are up to it.


To all of you Americans here, sorry if I have crossed the line.
But I'd rather be honest with you - and that's how I see it.
And I feel that U.S. policy on Isreal hurt us more than it benefits us.
October 6th, 2011  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by grey shadow
But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.

Hehe one of Herman Goerings more prophetic quotes, although somewhat ironic when used against Israel.
October 6th, 2011  
grey shadow
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Hehe one of Herman Goerings more prophetic quotes, although somewhat ironic when used against Israel.
I know.
One can learn much from history.
 


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