Israel rightfully own the West Bank . - Page 12




 
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September 30th, 2011  
Panzercracker
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
No one is allowed to boot anyone, but the jews have the right to live in their country of origin.
Well if Jews are no allowed to boot anyone than they dont have a right to live in their own country since its NOT their country, its a palestinian country.
September 30th, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
No one is allowed to boot anyone, but the jews have the right to live in their country of origin.
Don't talk rubbish, even the Jews do not believe that, if they did they would allow the Palestinian people who were driven out in 1948 to regain their lands in Israel. Or is it that you feel that only Jews have a "Right of Return"?

If Jews have this mysterious "Right" to return to their place of origin, does that mean that all world's Lutherans have a "Right" to return to Germany and displace those living there now, or the Methodists to England, Bhuddists to India? The thought that any adult human being could ever support such a stupid concept is an insult to human intelligence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
I do not favor jews and I'm not against palestinians but if you only give a list of palestinian casualties then your list is incomplete. I found the website that has your list , I also found a website that lists the jewish casualties, allthough not as detailed as the one you posted. So, in order to give the reader a more complete picture of casualties I will list this list to supplement yours.

How many Jews were killed/murdered by Palestinians?
Other than the fact that your rather "highly coloured" information* is garnered from a blatantly Zionist propaganda Blog,... you very conveniently missed the point didnt you? I posted this list to answer your rather inane question about the legitimacy of the Palestinians killing children on a bus, and your answer in no way explains or justifies the murder of members of the legitimate British Administration in Palestine, or even less the bombing of the British Embassy in Rome. The fact is, that the Zionist cause is no less a terrorist organisation than Al Quaeda is today.

*How convenient, that you see fit to list Israelis killed in a War started by them for no other reason than to drive Palestinians off their own lands into the adjoining Arab States. A bit like blaming the Jews of the Warsaw ghetto for the injuries and deaths of the troops trying to round them up for the camps. This, and similar distortions are so typical of the attempted defence of Israel's inexcusable ongoing policy of harassment and murder.
October 1st, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzercracker
Well if Jews are no allowed to boot anyone than they dont have a right to live in their own country since its NOT their country, its a palestinian country.
It never was palestinian country. All was part of the Ottoman Empire and after the British - who pushed back the Turks - left , the West Bank became a part of Jordan and Gaza was the responsibility of Egypt.
In 1988 Jordan renounced all claims to the territory occupied by Israel.
In 1993 Israel gave Gaza to the PLO and in 2005 the IDF and the jewish settlers left and the Israeli settlements were destroyed.
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October 1st, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Don't talk rubbish, even the Jews do not believe that, if they did they would allow the Palestinian people who were driven out in 1948 to regain their lands in Israel. Or is it that you feel that only Jews have a "Right of Return"?

If Jews have this mysterious "Right" to return to their place of origin, does that mean that all world's Lutherans have a "Right" to return to Germany and displace those living there now, or the Methodists to England, Bhuddists to India? The thought that any adult human being could ever support such a stupid concept is an insult to human intelligence.

Other than the fact that your rather "highly coloured" information* is garnered from a blatantly Zionist propaganda Blog,... you very conveniently missed the point didnt you? I posted this list to answer your rather inane question about the legitimacy of the Palestinians killing children on a bus, and your answer in no way explains or justifies the murder of members of the legitimate British Administration in Palestine, or even less the bombing of the British Embassy in Rome. The fact is, that the Zionist cause is no less a terrorist organisation than Al Quaeda is today.

*How convenient, that you see fit to list Israelis killed in a War started by them for no other reason than to drive Palestinians off their own lands into the adjoining Arab States. A bit like blaming the Jews of the Warsaw ghetto for the injuries and deaths of the troops trying to round them up for the camps. This, and similar distortions are so typical of the attempted defence of Israel's inexcusable ongoing policy of harassment and murder.
You seem to mix or refuse to understand the difference between religion and statehood. It is not because the German Luther is the founder of Protestantism that al protestants are German.

About that list, yours comes from a anti-israeli web page but I accept them as facts (allthough I cannot verify that right now). Yes Israelis killed Palestinian militants and also innocent people. But the Paelstinians did the same. Do you agree with me that Palestinian militants have killed innocent people? If your answer is no, then please post a list with the casualties caused by the Abu Nidal Organization and Black September.
October 1st, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Can of Man
You're right. They can live in Europe.
Then you must come back to Europe to
October 1st, 2011  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Then you must come back to Europe to
But he isn't European so why does he have to go back to Europe, but he is right I suspect that most "modern" Israelis have more right to bits of Poland, Germany and Russia than the Middle East.

Lets be honest Israelis are not "settlers" they are colonists and as a Belgian you should understand how well that works.
October 1st, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
You seem to mix or refuse to understand the difference between religion and statehood.
Not at all, your alleged confusion is purely as a result of your refusal to consider anything other than your own now obviously incorrect opinion, this leaves you with no alternative other than to claim that you don't understand my point. Germany is certainly a State and you claim that Israel is a State, You also claim or infer, that because Judaism was founded in Palestine, Jews should have the legal "Right" to invade Palestine and return 1000+ years later, killing the legitimate owners who resist having their land taken from them and driving most of the remainder into neighbouring countries.... So my point was to demonstrate that by your rather flaky reasoning, expatriate Lutherans should have a similar right to return to Germany and just push the present owners off their land and kill them if they resist. With the same applying to any religious group that were formed in a particular geographical area. Neither I nor the International community agree with you. http://www.israellawresourcecenter.o...ides/sgil3.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
About that list, yours comes from a anti-israeli web page
No it doesn't,... it is from Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks,... Wikipedia being a site where the Jewish pro Zionist group CAMERA are known to operate in an effort to "bend" information wherever possible, that may be construed as anti Israeli. So if anything at all, it would be far more realistic to say that it is generally pro-Israeli. The very fact that Zionists feel the need to do this is a good indication that they are aware how poorly their policies are viewed by the rest of the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Do you agree with me that Palestinian militants have killed innocent people? If your answer is no, then please post a list with the casualties caused by the Abu Nidal Organization and Black September.
Maybe they have, but that was never the point of my answer. You asked if the killing of Israeli children on a bus was OK, I answered to show that your question was moot and only a diversion from the facts, as Israelis have been using terror tactics on Palestinian women and children for over 100 years, unfortunately I could only find a source that listed actual details from 1937. I listed it all to demonstrate that these attacks have not been isolated incidents and that they deliberately targeted innocent civilians and British Administrators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
In 1993 Israel gave Gaza to the PLO and in 2005 the IDF and the jewish settlers left and the Israeli settlements were destroyed.
No the Israelis didn't give it,... it was never theirs to give. It belonged to the people of Palestine, it was only occupied (illegally)* by Israel, and they returned it to it's rightful owners due to International pressure.

*The quote below is from the Israel Law resource Centre, based on findings of the ICJ and the UN as to the Illegality of Israel's occupation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Israel Law Resource Centre
#8. ILLEGAL MILITARY OCCUPATION: The current Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories is illegal. Military actions and occupations are considered legal only if they are based on self-defense (as Israel claims) or are designed to benefit the native population of the occupied areas, but it is now clear that Israel's occupation is illegalbecause Israeli implementation of it clearly is about:
  • (1) Acquisition of land into Israel by force, and
  • (2) Economic exploitation of the occupied areas via building up de facto Annexation on occupied lands --
    • (A) Extensive modification of local laws, and
    • (B) Building Israeli settlements on occupied lands (illegal population transfer),
    • (C) Building separation barrier not on border but through Palestinian communities displacing over 200,000 Palestinian civilians separating them from their families, work, schools, hospitals, etc.
  • (3) Inhumane suppression of rebellion is implemented through --
    • (A) Practice of Collective Punishment, and
    • (B) Extensive violations of Palestinian Human Rights.
All 7 of these policy actions are illegal according to international law (see details below), which thus makes the occupation itself illegal. Press HERE for more details and quotes from the law concerning the legality of Israel's occupation.
October 2nd, 2011  
VDKMS
 
I once again try to explain my point of view (see also my post 2 days ago).
There is a difference between living somewhere and owning it. Palestinans (majority) and Jews (minority) lived in Palestine but the Turks (Ottoman Empire) owned (governed) it. Before that it were different rulers but it was never ruled by the Palestinians. After the Turks came the British with a mandate. Because of what was happening in Europe (Germany) some Jews were allowed to go to Palestine. Some came legal others illegal, but more and more came to Palestine. Anyway, after WWII the state of Israel was created. It became a sovereign state. The Arabs refused their part which was understandable. Then they made 2 big mistakes. They attacked a sovereign state and they underestimated the strength of the Israeli defences. They lost. Then the West Bank was given to Jordan and Gaza to Egypt. So the Palestinians were governed by three nations. Some by Israel (the ones who stayed, not everyone left or was kicked out) , the others by Jordan and Egypt. More info here . Then in 1967 Israel attacked the Arabs (who were ready to attack Israel but waited to long) and won. This time the Arabs lost territory. The West Bank , Gaza , Golan Heights and the Sinai were occupied by the Israelis. So, the West Bank was Jordanian land occupied by Israel. Then in 1988 something very important happenend, Jordan renounced all claims to the West Bank. And this is the sticky point. Who owns the West Bank? Not the Palestinians , the never owned it. Not Jordan , they renounced it. Not Israel , they didn't annexed it (and had no right to do so). Not all international lawyers are unanimous in this. So we can argue forever.
So, are the Palestinians allowed to have a sovereign country of their own? YES. Do they have one? NO. What the Palestinians are doing now is like an investor who has stocks in decline and does not want to sell. He will end up with nothing. As long as the Palestinians don't have a sovereign country the Israelis will build and expand settlements. After WWII Poland lost a big chunk of its territory to the Russians. They had two choices. Attack , like the Palestinians did and are still doing, or take their losses. They choose the latter, rolled up their sleeves and started rebuilding their country. It's booming now. Germany the same. It was flattened, they took their losse rolled up their sleeves and started building their country. It's now a big economic player in the world. So the Palestinians should take their losses roll up their sleeves and start building their country. Once they have a souverein state new and expanding Israeli settlements are stopped. Then they can try to get control of the settlements. Remember, not all laywers are unanimous in this. But toghether with a growing international support (if they stop shooting rockets at Israeli towns) they have a high chance of winning.
I'd like to say one more thing. When a Palestinian militant kills a Jew he is welcomed in his town as a hero. A few hours later comes the Israeli retaliation. And they hit back hard. Maybe killing 10 Palestinians. So, in my point of view, the "hero" is responsible for the death of 1 israeli and 10 palestinians because if he didn't kill the jew the 10 palestinians would still be alive. But it is worse. The killed jew propably is just a farmer or worker at the wrong place at the wrong time. But chances are high that among the 10 palestinians there were important people. The ones with brains. The ones needed in a Palestinian state.
October 2nd, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
But he isn't European so why does he have to go back to Europe, but he is right I suspect that most "modern" Israelis have more right to bits of Poland, Germany and Russia than the Middle East.

Lets be honest Israelis are not "settlers" they are colonists and as a Belgian you should understand how well that works.
The situation is different. I'm not going to argue if its wright or wrong. But the Jews always believed that Palestine is the land promised by god to them. I think it is in the bible (I'm not religious so I'm not 100% sure), so they went to their "promised land".
The first "settlers" of America went over there because they were persecuted because of their religion. Thereafter came the ones that colonised it and fought the native indians. Most Americans have european ancesters. Custer's troops at the battle of the Little Bighorn were most Germans.
Congo was "found" by Stanley on a mission from King Leopold II. So the king "owned" the congo before giving it to Belgium. The Belgians then send missionaries to convert the "savages" and bussinessmen to colonise (plunder) the land. As did the French , Germans and English in Africa. The Dutch in Indonesia and so on.
October 2nd, 2011  
Panzercracker
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
But the Jews always believed that Palestine is the land promised by god to them.
And Germans believed that Jews need to be gassed so? And i believe i need to earn more money and that my seargant is a fag, your point being?
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
I think it is in the bible (I'm not religious so I'm not 100% sure), so they went to their "promised land".
Bible is written by Jews, so Jews believed a book written by Jews, see how ****ed up your reasoning is yet?

The point is that You are attempting to defend some pretty messed up actions by Israeli Jews via lawyering and gibberish.
 


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