Iraqi equipment
Panzercracker
Active member
In an export version yes, domestic variants are facing withdrawal so there's not much work done on them.
Panzercracker
Active member
For nothing, they're going to decrease tank strength to 300-500 with 128 2A4s and the rest PT-91s and we're not seeing any new tanks for at least 5 years.
Panzercracker
Active member
Great...A country between Germany and Ukrain with 500 tanks. I hope nothing strange happens in european politics over the next 5 years
We're just as happy as you're. Our MoD decided that the temporary AT assets are to be self propelled artillery and Spikebuses (Patria AMV with Spike launchers)..
FO Seaman
Active member
This is arguable. Through the past 15 years the M1 has received so many and such advanced upgrades than what the original M1 had, it is so far obsolete that it is just insanity. The T-72, is an on par tank with the M60A3TTS, the M60A3TTS actually has certain advantages over the T-72, let alone the T-64.
The Iraqi T-72's don't even have a composite armor, the M1 does. Not the DU mesh, but it does have Chobham and then whatever the Iraqi's decide to throw on it.
I'm sure the export version of the M1 could defiantly hold out a bit longer than an Iraqi T-72, because believe it or not, when we went in in 91' not all unit's had the M1A1, there where baseline M1/IPM1's in front line armor units too.
Not to mention how many of the 4500 tanks the Iraqi's currently have, how well are they kept, how many actually run, and how many actually have trained crews? If the US is going to be training Iraqi tankers, then we are going to train them on our systems.
But, in the end, it's a "whatever" situation, because could have, should have, or would have we don't make the decisions and the guys behind the big desks do. :mrgreen:
IMO the best idea for the Iraqi's would have been the 120S, give um a bunch of old M60's and the 120S package, but I suppose the M1 works too.
Last edited:
Panzercracker
Active member
Regardless of the type, 320 tanks are a joke, for a country like Iraq in such a hot region the numbers to consider start from 1000 upwards and thats when we're talking good tanks.
FO Seaman
Active member
That's why I think the 120S is a good idea. 12,000 M60's in the US inventory, we don't use them. Sell them at a fair price with the kits. Make some money, and they get a larger, modernized tank force.
Panzercracker
Active member
Ignoring political realities, T-80U or T-90 is still a better choice since these babies are cheap(er) than M1 and better than M60 in any setup, the M60's you have have seen a lot of use and i doubt they're being maintained up to shape in mothballs, Iraqis would be getting used up equipment, i'm not a big fan of russian hardware but when you're on a budget Russia's the place to go, especially in tanks.
Panzercracker
Active member
And the other way around, however you can still modernize a T-80 while an M60Sabra is pretty much it, you did wonders with the tank but there's not much else you can do with it, its the end of the modernisation line.
FO Seaman
Active member
I think the M60120s and the Sabra are about the same, if the Sabra isent a bit better. The Sabra has fire control, main gun and protection from the Merkava Mk III and IV. But for many reasons I cant see many countries buying Sabras:
1: Its only worth while if you already have a large stock of M60 tanks. Most clients of Israeli hardware either have better tanks already like the Leo 2A4 or 2A5. The rest are former eastern block or french hardware buyers that have T-55/62/72 or AMX-13 and AMX-30. With out knowing I am guessing Israel offers upgrade packages for all of this designs, either ful ones similar to the Sabra, or just partiall like FCS components etc.
2: Israel and Turkey are probably not too keen to let just anybodey put their hands on the Mk 4 protection plates that as it seems, cover the turret of the Sabra as well as the front hull.
3. Many countries refuse to buy Israeli hardware, including all Arab countries and some other countries.
Iraq for sure, even if it is now controlled by more pro-western leaders(and this remains to be seen when the Americans leave) wouldent buy Israeli hardware. Israel dosent sell to Jordan or Egypt, that have peace treties with it, so I cqant see the iraqies buying anything Made in Israel.
So yes, this has all been off-toppic
As for the Iraqis, I cant see what else they can do but buy the M-1, even in its "watered down" version. Surely most of Sadams T-72 and T-62 are destroyed, rusting or just neglected beyond use. I would not be surprised if over 75% of them are total-losses.
Buying T-80 or T-90 from Russia is not a bad idea, but I can only assume these tanks are being bought with American aid. If so, I doubt the Russians are willing to do the same whilest the Iraqi regieme seems at this time pro-western or at least not pro-Russian. Even if they can get T-90 for half the price of the export version M1, Im not saure they can afford to fund the purchase themselves. All in all the Iraqi army is in the ****. It fought 3 major wars in 30 years, with tremendous loss of equippment and life. Once the Americans pull out not much stands between Iran and Bagdad, assuming the Iranis make a pass at it.
1: Its only worth while if you already have a large stock of M60 tanks. Most clients of Israeli hardware either have better tanks already like the Leo 2A4 or 2A5. The rest are former eastern block or french hardware buyers that have T-55/62/72 or AMX-13 and AMX-30. With out knowing I am guessing Israel offers upgrade packages for all of this designs, either ful ones similar to the Sabra, or just partiall like FCS components etc.
2: Israel and Turkey are probably not too keen to let just anybodey put their hands on the Mk 4 protection plates that as it seems, cover the turret of the Sabra as well as the front hull.
3. Many countries refuse to buy Israeli hardware, including all Arab countries and some other countries.
Iraq for sure, even if it is now controlled by more pro-western leaders(and this remains to be seen when the Americans leave) wouldent buy Israeli hardware. Israel dosent sell to Jordan or Egypt, that have peace treties with it, so I cqant see the iraqies buying anything Made in Israel.
So yes, this has all been off-toppic
As for the Iraqis, I cant see what else they can do but buy the M-1, even in its "watered down" version. Surely most of Sadams T-72 and T-62 are destroyed, rusting or just neglected beyond use. I would not be surprised if over 75% of them are total-losses.
Buying T-80 or T-90 from Russia is not a bad idea, but I can only assume these tanks are being bought with American aid. If so, I doubt the Russians are willing to do the same whilest the Iraqi regieme seems at this time pro-western or at least not pro-Russian. Even if they can get T-90 for half the price of the export version M1, Im not saure they can afford to fund the purchase themselves. All in all the Iraqi army is in the ****. It fought 3 major wars in 30 years, with tremendous loss of equippment and life. Once the Americans pull out not much stands between Iran and Bagdad, assuming the Iranis make a pass at it.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
M60-120S looks like some kind of deception plan into getting your enemies to think that you've got a massive fleet of M1s!
Both pre- and post-Saddam Iraq really didn't have the resources the build the kind of tank fleet that could take on modern western tanks. Any country in that region has to design a military force that is focused not on what the US Army has, but on what its other neighbors have like Iran and perhaps Saudi Arabia have as far as MBT's.
A poor battle scarred country like Iraq is not going to be able to afford to buy or maintain large numbers of modern western tanks. I would opt for a mixed fleet of T-62's and T-72's. Maybe some of these tanks could be upgraded with more modern weapons, engines and the like. Not every regional power can afford to have the kind of gilt edged militaries like the US or other NATO countries
A poor battle scarred country like Iraq is not going to be able to afford to buy or maintain large numbers of modern western tanks. I would opt for a mixed fleet of T-62's and T-72's. Maybe some of these tanks could be upgraded with more modern weapons, engines and the like. Not every regional power can afford to have the kind of gilt edged militaries like the US or other NATO countries
Chukpike
Banned
The Iraqi Army is being equiped with M1A1 tanks the same as Saudi Arabi, Kuwait and Egypt.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/M1-Abrams-Tanks-for-Iraq-05013/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/M1-Abrams-Tanks-for-Iraq-05013/
Thats a good point. Only one problem. Iraqs next door countries are armed thus:
Kuwait: M1A2 and older tanks
Saudi Arabia: M1A2 and M1A2, plus older tanks.
Jordan: Challanger I and highly advanced M60 upgrades, and older tanks.
Iran: Zulfiqar and older tanks.
Turkey: Leopard 2A6, Sabra III, older tanks.
In short they shou8ld go for a hi-lo mix. 100-200 M1A2 and 300-600 M60 or T-72.