The Iraq war

In GW1 Saddam did a big mistake. From August 1990 till January 1991 , about five month, allies were transferring their soldiers and weapons ,included 550000 soldiers , 3000 heavy tanks and 2000 planes, to Persian gulf and Saddam just watched them.
It was a good opportunity for him to capture the main ports and prevent the allies to strengthen their fortifications. He still had a strong army at that time.


Air power would have done the same to those installations as they did to Iraq's infrastructure. It might have taken a Moscow Air Defense ring to hold the air campaign off.

Also the ports were vulnerable to naval weapons as well and at the time don't forget the U.S. still had active battleships if they wanted to get really nasty.
 
Air power would have done the same to those installations as they did to Iraq's infrastructure. It might have taken a Moscow Air Defense ring to hold the air campaign off.

Also the ports were vulnerable to naval weapons as well and at the time don't forget the U.S. still had active battleships if they wanted to get really nasty.
GW1 was an costly war for west, much more than they thought. So imagine that what would have been the cost of war for allies if Saddam had done an pre-emptive attack during that transferring five months.

Another Saddam stupid decision was he didn't attack to allies during 39 days allies air-strikes and before their ground strikes. Norman Schwarzkopf, the US commander, said after the war that their nightmare had been Saddam pre-emptive attack during that 39 days.

He just watched how the allies air force buried his armored weapons under soil. His war machine was still strong at that time. 1 million soldier who had eight years war experience against Iran, 5300 tanks, 7000 other armored machines, 600 planes and a lot of missiles. He could have done a lot of things but he didn't.

I think the main reason of that stupid decision was he had scared of the US name.

I don't want to say he would have been the winner of war, but he could have made the war much more difficult for allies.
 
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I noticed this area has been dead for a while and was curious if anyone was interested in discussing the war in Iraq?

It could be about anything. Tactics, units, battles, commanders, administration, foul ups, books, doctrine, training...whatever you want. I'd be more than willing to give my insights to the discussion as well since I feel like I've the unique experience of being there in the begining, towards the middle, and at the end. From the ranks of lower enlisted, to non commissioned officer, to officer.

So, any takers?

Not sure if this is on topic or not but...
How does training the new Iraqi forces work?
As far as I can tell you have multiple nation training forces in their region given that each nation has different processes and standards how do you marry it all up, I am assuming there is a national standard but with instructors trained in different systems it must be difficult?
 
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Not sure if this is on topic or not but...
How does training the new Iraqi forces work?
As far as I can tell you have multiple nation training forces in their region given that each nation has different processes and standards how do you marry it all up, I am assuming there is a national standard but with instructors trained in different systems it must be difficult?

There were set procedures and policies on the method of training and the syllabus, which was a set standard between all countries.

There was assistance from NATO and ISAF to make sure there were no variations to the training being given.
 
Every person who did the Advise/Train/Assist role during a deployment would go through a course that got everyone on the same page as to what the focus and conduct of training was to be. Often times, teams were multi-national to further integrate and solidify a training doctrine.
 
I was not on active duty anymore when the war started in 2003.

But I've had a very small chance to participate in the first Gulf War. Not the invasion in Kuwait but in Turkey. There were rumors that the Turks were looking for non-Turkish personel to man their Nike Hercules Air defense systems. Unfortunately we were not able to prove the effectiveness of that system.


That wasn't my point. It seems you use Iraq a lot as examples for your arguments. Most of them in my opinion are inaccurate. I was hoping to discuss them here so we wouldn't derail any other threads with talk of this conflict.

And by your comments here and on other threads I can tell war is still romanticized in your mind.

No soldier expects to remain in their barracks for the duration. BUT, no soldier expects their sacrifice to be wasted either. You've never been betrayed before, so I wouldn't expect you to understand.
 
That wasn't my point. It seems you use Iraq a lot as examples for your arguments. Most of them in my opinion are inaccurate. I was hoping to discuss them here so we wouldn't derail any other threads with talk of this conflict.

And by your comments here and on other threads I can tell war is still romanticized in your mind.

Then you didn't read them well and certainly not all.

No soldier expects to remain in their barracks for the duration. BUT, no soldier expects their sacrifice to be wasted either. You've never been betrayed before, so I wouldn't expect you to understand.

Belgian Paratroopers were betrayed by the UN when 10 of them were being killed and they were not allowed to intervene. After their mission they teared up their blue caps when leaving the plane. Each year we visited their camp for a training course for our students. I know how they felt. Every one of them felt betrayed. I don't think every American soldier fighting in Iraq felt betrayed.
 
So you're going to use the experience of someone else as an example of personal betrayal? That's pretty fvckin shallow. You have no idea the trepidations and cost that combat has on a human being. How could you possibly relate to those paratroopers and then have the audacity to use it as a counterpoint to what I have said? It's like saying you can relate to the me and my experience in the battle of Baghdad because you knew some guys who were there too. NO...HELL NO.

Ever heard of Iraq Veterans Against the War? Most the Iraq Vets I know are extrememly pissed at the waste of their sacrifice. How could you possibly know about how we feel. How many Iraq war Veterans from the US military that were actually on the ground have you talked to? All you have is conjecture...speculation...because you DON'T know or you don't want to know because it doesn't fall into your line of beliefs.

I have read your posts on Iraq and you have a very simple understanding of the war. If you think it was "liberated" then you are sadly mistaken and woefully misinformed. You should get your information from other sources than Fox news. We fvcked that country up and then half ass tried to put band aids on it while the vacuum that was created tore that country apart. Feel free to read a book or two on the subject. Or hell, even interview some soldiers instead of believing the BS you see on TV, on the internet, or in the press.

I must say, your paratrooper comment just floored me. It was probably one of the most shallow, insensitive, and totally off the mark comments I have seen on this forum...
 
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Belgian Paratroopers were betrayed by the UN when 10 of them were being killed and they were not allowed to intervene. After their mission they teared up their blue caps when leaving the plane. Each year we visited their camp for a training course for our students. I know how they felt. Every one of them felt betrayed. I don't think every American soldier fighting in Iraq felt betrayed.

Try volunteering to defend your country and fighting in a foreign land 10,000 miles away from home, only to have a bunch of ungrateful ignorant civilians complain about how you're doing your job and have restrictions placed on you that get you or your buddies killed because some politician wanted to keep his office.

Then after going through a bunch of bullsht and have your efforts to defend your country wasted by politicians and come home to a country full of the same people that you swore to defend, turn against you and blame you for the war and look upon you as a monster.

That IS the reality for MANY American Serviceman who came home from Iraq. You want to say that your story is a betrayal that you know how they feel? TRY GOING THROUGH THAT.

Yea, I know haven't been deployed, yea I know I'm young, but guess what? I am an American Soldier, and where I live that's looked down upon, even though I have done nothing but swear to defend the Constitution of the United States. They frown upon me and think I am bloodthirsty and crazy to want to get deployed and do my part. Then I see friends and other servicemen that came home from deployments face the same damn bullsht. How's THAT for a betrayal?
 
So you're going to use the experience of someone else as an example of personal betrayal? That's pretty fvckin shallow. You have no idea the trepidations and cost that combat has on a human being. How could you possibly relate to those paratroopers and then have the audacity to use it as a counterpoint to what I have said? It's like saying you can relate to the me and my experience in the battle of Baghdad because you knew some guys who were there too. NO...HELL NO.

Ever heard of Iraq Veterans Against the War? Most the Iraq Vets I know are extrememly pissed at the waste of their sacrifice. How could you possibly know about how we feel. How many Iraq war Veterans from the US military that were actually on the ground have you talked to? All you have is conjecture...speculation...because you DON'T know or you don't want to know because it doesn't fall into your line of beliefs.

I have read your posts on Iraq and you have a very simple understanding of the war. If you think it was "liberated" then you are sadly mistaken and woefully misinformed. You should get your information from other sources than Fox news. We fvcked that country up and then half ass tried to put band aids on it while the vacuum that was created tore that country apart. Feel free to read a book or two on the subject. Or hell, even interview some soldiers instead of believing the BS you see on TV, on the internet, or in the press.

I must say, your paratrooper comment just floored me. It was probably one of the most shallow, insensitive, and totally off the mark comments I have seen on this forum...

Since you haven't read my posts, otherwise you would not talk like that I'll give it to you: About Napalm the bocage! Page 16 post #155
"No matter how hard you try to put yourself in the shoes of those who were in combat, if you've never experienced it you do not even come close."​

That's how I think about it, but it is not because I was not there that I am not allowed to have an opinion. The war in Iraq was much more than your battle alone which I do respect.

Those Paratroopers paid the ultimate price while following up orders of the UN. They were not just shot you know. They had to give their arms to the rebels (UN procedure if caught) and later their achilles heels were hacked with machetes so they couldn't escape. They succeeded to overpower their guards and took their (small) weapons and entered a hut. From there they fought back against their attackers until an RPG ended it all.

Try volunteering to defend your country and fighting in a foreign land 10,000 miles away from home, only to have a bunch of ungrateful ignorant civilians complain about how you're doing your job and have restrictions placed on you that get you or your buddies killed because some politician wanted to keep his office.

Then after going through a bunch of bullsht and have your efforts to defend your country wasted by politicians and come home to a country full of the same people that you swore to defend, turn against you and blame you for the war and look upon you as a monster.

That IS the reality for MANY American Serviceman who came home from Iraq. You want to say that your story is a betrayal that you know how they feel? TRY GOING THROUGH THAT.

Yea, I know haven't been deployed, yea I know I'm young, but guess what? I am an American Soldier, and where I live that's looked down upon, even though I have done nothing but swear to defend the Constitution of the United States. They frown upon me and think I am bloodthirsty and crazy to want to get deployed and do my part. Then I see friends and other servicemen that came home from deployments face the same damn bullsht. How's THAT for a betrayal?

Read my reply to brinktk:

"No matter how hard you try to put yourself in the shoes of those who were in combat, if you've never experienced it you do not even come close."​

then judge me.
 
Read my reply to brinktk:
"No matter how hard you try to put yourself in the shoes of those who were in combat, if you've never experienced it you do not even come close."​
then judge me.

I was not speaking about combat, and you are in no position to preach to me about being an American Soldier in today's conflict. I was speaking about the utterly ungrateful and spiteful American public that treated our soldiers like dog sht, for doing what was right and defending our country. You don't even have to have been deployed, The same people who sht on our soldiers coming home, do the same bullsht to the ones that are right here at home.

Oh an really, you're going to tell brinktk that you actually respect him for his service in Iraq, and then try to contradict him with someone else's story? I'll let him speak for himself on that one. :bang:
 
I was not speaking about combat, and you are in no position to preach to me about being an American Soldier in today's conflict. I was speaking about the utterly ungrateful and spiteful American public that treated our soldiers like dog sht, for doing what was right and defending our country. You don't even have to have been deployed, The same people who sht on our soldiers coming home, do the same bullsht to the ones that are right here at home.

Oh an really, you're going to tell brinktk that you actually respect him for his service in Iraq, and then try to contradict him with someone else's story? I'll let him speak for himself on that one. :bang:

The reason why I told that story is because he (as an American) is not the only one(s) that suffered in combat or feel betrayed by their government or, as in the case I mentionend, an international organization.

Show me where I disrespect the American soldier. War is hell, we all know that but the ones who fought it know it better. Losing your friend in combat is terrible.

What we are talking about happens in almost every war. Some will feel betrayed others not. Soldiers from various nations fought in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afganistan, Bosnia. All of them could have said : what am I fighting for in a country that's not mine. Every soldier has his personal story but it is not they who make the decisions to go to war, it is not they who decide where battles are fought. When you enlist you know **** can happen. Unfortunately it happend to him (and many others).

But I stick to my opinion that the Coaltion forces did a great job in Iraq. Whether you find the war justified or not.
 
The reason why I told that story is because he (as an American) is not the only one(s) that suffered in combat or feel betrayed by their government or, as in the case I mentionend, an international organization.

Show me where I disrespect the American soldier. War is hell, we all know that but the ones who fought it know it better. Losing your friend in combat is terrible.

What we are talking about happens in almost every war. Some will feel betrayed others not. Soldiers from various nations fought in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afganistan, Bosnia. All of them could have said : what am I fighting for in a country that's not mine. Every soldier has his personal story but it is not they who make the decisions to go to war, it is not they who decide where battles are fought. When you enlist you know **** can happen. Unfortunately it happend to him (and many others).

But I stick to my opinion that the Coaltion forces did a great job in Iraq. Whether you find the war justified or not.


That's the exact point I was trying to make. I know I'm not the only who feels this way. You don't have to point this out to me. It seems to be a trend...Soldiers don't have the luxury of picking where and who they fight. Noone understands this truth more than I. It certainly doesn't mean that I'm to be a robot and ignore the moral issues that come with the decisions that our policy makers decide. Lions led by lambs. When I joined the military I naively assumed that my country would not send Americans to die in an effort where we can't win. Again. I thought that the best and the brightest of our decision makers could never lead to us through another Vietnam.

What I have seen is that the lessons of history are hardest learned by the men and women in the breech while those monitoring the progress with their charts and diagrams and power point presentations are so far removed from the reality on the ground that it creates the quagmires that make it almost impossible to get ourselves out of. We are sent off to war with almost impossible expectations and rules that restrict us to the point where we can hardly defend ourselves. Soldiers on the ground have tried and tried and tried to voice their ideas on what's effective and again and again it is largely ignored. I suppose all we're good for is dieing and killing.

You may certainly have your opinion on the subject. Much the same way a virgin will have an opinion on sex. You can read, talk, and research it all you want...until you've done it, your input is not going to be taken very seriously.

I would say the coalition forces did the best with what they had. There is certainly areas where we could have done a lot better. There are certainly decisions that could have been made that would have made the persecution in dealing with the insurgency much easier. Paul Bremer and his entourage come to mind when it comes to inept leadership that made the duration of the war at least 5 years longer than it should have.

The fact of the matter is that we should not have been there in the first place. Not under the circumstances we went over there for. The way we went in there was all wrong too. There was absolutely no plan for what to do after Baghdad fell, and the actions taken by the Bush administration and his right hand men in Iraq showed that clearly in the summer of 2003. We went in there with conservatively about 1/3 and more realistically about 1/5 the number of troops we should have. Numerous US generals stated that we needed at a minimum half a million troops. Those same generals found themselves on the chopping block as soon as they stated their protest. Rumsfeld was all about "smaller more agile". That's fine if we're going to go in and go out. The fact is we didn't know what we were going to do.

I also take offense to companies like KBR and Haliburton running amock throughout the country. Why am I providing security to their convoys when they are transporting nothing worth protecting? They were given a blank check by the US government and I personally witnessed drivers that were told to " leave ANY damaged vehicle outside the wire, we'll just write it off". Damaged could be anything from one destroyed by an IED, to one getting a flat tire that could be fixed in about 15 minutes. Why also were they renting Chevy Tahoes and Cadillac Escalades for driving around our FOBs? I'll tell you why, because they're the most expensive vehicle they could get and they get to charge the uncle sam with interest. These contractors made billions and there was absolutely no oversight. Even worse, I was expected to risk my life so that these guys could make 5-10 times what I make and so the heads of the company can make billions.

We weren't there for freedom or democracy. We were there for the contracts to rebuild. What do we have to show for it? An extremely weak government that is largely influenced by Iran with a flourishing insurgency and a breeding ground for new terrorists.

I'm not doubting that the soldiers on the ground did a helluva job given the circumstances. But their sacrifice had nothing to do with protecting anything other than the interests of a few that had billions to make off it with a price tag of 4000 US soldier lives , 40,000 wounded and conservatively 2 trillion dollars in cost.
 
Look at sectarian violence since we left.

It is far from stable, the KAR and GOI are on the verge of war over Kirkuk and there is a growing movement for the country to be partitioned between a sunni west, shia south, east, and southest, and a Kurdish north. The government is in grid lock along ethnic lines while corruption is rampant. Cities still only have power for 4-12 hours a day and public services are slim to none.

On top of insurgent groups blowing up carbombs on ISF, GOI buildings, or just random market places on more and more frequent occasions. Then there is the kidnappings and assassinations of the effective government administrators from the ISF to public officials by these same insurgent groups.

I wish I was being dramatic, unfortunately...I'm not.
 
Talking about Iraq war, I recall most roadside bombs, roadside bomb can made by landmines, use old shells made,use aerial bombs as meterial, and even with a large pottery or glass bottles fill with dynamite and nails. I have seen a roadside bomb consisting of multiple 155-mm artillery shells on internet picture, if it explodes, even the M1A1 tank will return to "components."
This weapon already killed many American soldiers in Iraq war, and many people disabilities, What U.S. military to deal with roadside bombs ?
"Roadside bombs, AK47, RPG-7, 107-mm rocket launchers," the main weapons of the Iraq armed confront with U.S. and British forces in Iraq.
 
Talking about Iraq war, I recall most roadside bombs, roadside bomb can made by landmines, use old shells made,use aerial bombs as meterial, and even with a large pottery or glass bottles fill with dynamite and nails. I have seen a roadside bomb consisting of multiple 155-mm artillery shells on internet picture, if it explodes, even the M1A1 tank will return to "components."
This weapon already killed many American soldiers in Iraq war, and many people disabilities, What U.S. military to deal with roadside bombs ?
"Roadside bombs, AK47, RPG-7, 107-mm rocket launchers," the main weapons of the Iraq armed confront with U.S. and British forces in Iraq.


The first thing we did was to "armor up". We put steel on the sides of our vehicles, sandbags on the floor of the vehicles, and even old flak jackets to line the floor or side as well. We would drive as fast as the vehicle could go so that hopefully the triggerman would blow it too soon or too late and not hit you dead on. We would vary our vehicle distance from one another and try to take a different route every time we had to travel. The Duke system was introduced years ago and it jammed any type of radio/cell phone frequency within a certain sized bubble around our vehicles. This prevented cell phones, garage openers, romote controls etc from being used as detonating devices. The Rhino was also introduced which is essentially a massive glow plug that puts a heat signature in front of our vehicles. That way, if the insurgents are using a passive infrared sensor as a detonating device, it will blow up in front of the vehicle and not on the crew compartment.

The MRAP came out and it pretty much was able to survive all but the biggest IED explosions. It has a V shaped bottom that deflects the blast away from the vehicle and it is so high off the ground that it makes any EFPs (Explosively formed penetrators, the REALLY nasty IEDs that were mainly manufactured in Iran) planted on the road very noticeable because of the angle they have to be placed at to hit the crew compartment of the MRAP.

There were other things we used like certain types of scanning techniques, or certain types of patrolling techniques to find secondaries if we found one that was a little too obvious or had just detonated. These techniques we employed to minimize damage.

Really, the best defense against them was vigilence. Knowing the area you're operating in. Trying to find the object, pile of trash, hole, or whatever that looks out of place. Not cutting corners or getting lazy on patrol. That was the best defense against them. That one time you fall asleep while you're on your way back to the FOB...BOOM.

Back in 03 my convoy was ambushed just outside Fallujah on Route Michigan. The ambush was kicked off by a daisy chained IED that killed one of my buddies in the hilly billy armored Humvee in front of me, terribly wounded the other three men. Almost immediately afterwards my vehicle was hit with an RPG which I was blown out of. Then a 15 minute firefight ensued. After all was said and done we had one KIA and 10 wounded in my platoon. We were less than 5 minutes from our FOB. I refused evacuation...the deployment only got worse.

Last year, while I was on Route Cherry Main, my vehicle was hit by an IED that was about as big as the one that killed my friend back in 03. The MRAP got a flat tire...that was it. A wrecker came out and replaced our tire and we continued mission...big difference from 2003 to 2011.
 
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First : I have read that the troops were not allowed (by Rumsfeld) to destroy enemy amunition dumps because it would only slow down their advance to Bagdad.

Second : a lot of Iraqi soldiers changed to civilian clothes but were caught because of the shoes they were wearing.

Are both true?
 
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