Iran , Why ?




 
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Boots
 
March 1st, 2015  
tetvet
 

Topic: Iran , Why ?


Why is the U.S. trying so hard to negotiate a nuke deal with Iran ? Iran will never honor any deal and the U.S. could make Iran disappear in the blink of an eye .
March 1st, 2015  
JOC
 
 
However the US will not make Iran disappear. Iran on the other hand if they are able to manufacture enough nukes to but Israel out of action just might do it. The Iranian nuclear facilities are 1/2 mile underground. This beyond the current capability of the Israeli military, only the US has bombs that can drive that deep and that would cause one hell of an international incident. It's kind of darned if you do darned if you don't.
March 1st, 2015  
brinktk
 
 
Rhetoric is not reality. Iran is decades behind Israel and the US in nuclear capability. Martyrdom isn't something Persians are known for. They know any use of nuclear weapons would be suicide...but it certainly would be a good deterent to make sure the Western rhetoric of military action against them remains precisely that. Smoke and mirrors ladies and gents...smoke and mirrors.
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Boots
March 1st, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
Rhetoric is not reality. Iran is decades behind Israel and the US in nuclear capability. Martyrdom isn't something Persians are known for. They know any use of nuclear weapons would be suicide...but it certainly would be a good deterent to make sure the Western rhetoric of military action against them remains precisely that. Smoke and mirrors ladies and gents...smoke and mirrors.
Not for lack of trying. Of course they are behind. The US and Israel have been nuclear power for a long time and Iran is a nuclear wannabe. However remember how small Israel is and how deeply buried the current Iranian nuclear facilities are. They are beyond the reach of Israel's conventional weapons. Only the US is in a position to take them out.
March 1st, 2015  
mmarsh
 
 
Because its not really about Iran, its about Israel and its position as a regional power.

Israel wants to remain the only regional power in the Middle East. Iran and the Arabs do not like being threatened by Israels nuclear arsenal which is why they are each dreaming to get one of their own.

Persian Iran (which is Shiite) doesn't like the fact its surrounded by hostile Arab Sunni Muslims. Shiites have been the targets of genocide by Jihadists before, they are buying themselves some nuclear insurance in case some Sunni Imam gets any crazy Ideas.

Washington doesn't really like Iran or Israel but the fact that Israel holds the sole nuclear trump card destabilizes the region. I think Washington probably does want a counterweight to Israels Nukes so that Israel would be forced to actually come to the negotiation table but without setting off WWIII.

In other words: A Middle East Version of M.A.D.

Now there is an irrational fear that the Iranians would actually use a Nuke at the first opportunity. Here's why not:

1. The Mullahs haven't survived this long by being stupid, they know any unprovoked attack on Israel, Europe or the USA would result in Iran be bombed into the Stone age. They want a nuke for status and for self protection against another nuclear armed nation, They aren't Jihadists (al Qaeda or ISIS) who want to set the non-muslim world on fire

2. Anyone who worries about a Nuclear armed Iran should remember that we allowed Pakistan to get a Nuclear weapons despite the fact its madrases were pumping out Jihadists to fight with al-Qaeda and the Taliban by the thousands. A situation far more dangerous than a nuclear armed Iran.
March 2nd, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
Because its not really about Iran, its about Israel and its position as a regional power.

Israel wants to remain the only regional power in the Middle East. Iran and the Arabs do not like being threatened by Israels nuclear arsenal which is why they are each dreaming to get one of their own.

Persian Iran (which is Shiite) doesn't like the fact its surrounded by hostile Arab Sunni Muslims. Shiites have been the targets of genocide by Jihadists before, they are buying themselves some nuclear insurance in case some Sunni Imam gets any crazy Ideas.

Washington doesn't really like Iran or Israel but the fact that Israel holds the sole nuclear trump card destabilizes the region. I think Washington probably does want a counterweight to Israels Nukes so that Israel would be forced to actually come to the negotiation table but without setting off WWIII.

In other words: A Middle East Version of M.A.D.

Now there is an irrational fear that the Iranians would actually use a Nuke at the first opportunity. Here's why not:

1. The Mullahs haven't survived this long by being stupid, they know any unprovoked attack on Israel, Europe or the USA would result in Iran be bombed into the Stone age. They want a nuke for status and for self protection against another nuclear armed nation, They aren't Jihadists (al Qaeda or ISIS) who want to set the non-muslim world on fire

2. Anyone who worries about a Nuclear armed Iran should remember that we allowed Pakistan to get a Nuclear weapons despite the fact its madrases were pumping out Jihadists to fight with al-Qaeda and the Taliban by the thousands. A situation far more dangerous than a nuclear armed Iran.
This could go on and on however as heavy handed as Israel may be they by and far the most stable power in the ME and this is one reason they have US backing. The other being the large US Jewish population.
As for Iran they've outright boasted about blowing Israel off the map if given the chance. Don't you remember the taking of the US embassy as one of the 1st things the new regime did in Iran, sound stable? Pakistan has unstable elements, however they are not running the government. Turkey and Arabia fall into this category of having to deal with terrorist but are basically on solid ground.
Since Iran doesn't possess Atomic bombs they are a paper tiger in this respect, but who knows how much help a desperate Russia could provide if the price is right? Then again they may never get the bomb? The Iranians religious regime has survived by rule of fear, they are a very strict religious dictatorship.
March 2nd, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
This could go on and on however as heavy handed as Israel may be they by and far the most stable power in the ME and this is one reason they have US backing. The other being the large US Jewish population.
As for Iran they've outright boasted about blowing Israel off the map if given the chance. Don't you remember the taking of the US embassy as one of the 1st things the new regime did in Iran, sound stable? Pakistan has unstable elements, however they are not running the government. Turkey and Arabia fall into this category of having to deal with terrorist but are basically on solid ground.
Since Iran doesn't possess Atomic bombs they are a paper tiger in this respect, but who knows how much help a desperate Russia could provide if the price is right? Then again they may never get the bomb? The Iranians religious regime has survived by rule of fear, they are a very strict religious dictatorship.
That is a rather monocular view of the system.

I am not sure how you define "stable" but the constant need for early elections, the assassination of Prime ministers by right wing extremists, the constant skullduggery, assassinations and general disregard for international law tell me otherwise.
The real difference between Iran and Israel is that one is a theocracy and the other is a racist theocracy disguised as a democracy.

Do me a huge favour will you and find Iran has boasted of wiping Israel off the map, but for the record here is my counter to the stories often repeated but rarely validated....


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...IKML_blog.html

Weird you should focus on the Iranian Embassy hostage thing yet over look how early on in Israels career it happily shot up the USS Liberty, how many Americans did Iran kill in taking the Embassy?

As MMarsh has pointed out Iran with the bomb is no more dangerous than it is without it as to use it is suicide.
March 2nd, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
That is a rather monocular view of the system.

I am not sure how you define "stable" but the constant need for early elections, the assassination of Prime ministers by right wing extremists, the constant skullduggery, assassinations and general disregard for international law tell me otherwise.
The real difference between Iran and Israel is that one is a theocracy and the other is a racist theocracy disguised as a democracy.

Do me a huge favour will you and find Iran has boasted of wiping Israel off the map, but for the record here is my counter to the stories often repeated but rarely validated....


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...IKML_blog.html

Weird you should focus on the Iranian Embassy hostage thing yet over look how early on in Israels career it happily shot up the USS Liberty, how many Americans did Iran kill in taking the Embassy?

As MMarsh has pointed out Iran with the bomb is no more dangerous than it is without it as to use it is suicide.
One difference is the Iranian regime has killed 10 of thousands of political and religious prisoners during it tenure, a far higher tally than that of Israel. As previously mentioned the Israelis are heavy handed, however not nearly as heavy handed as the Iranians. The Israelis are probably the only Mideast country that drops leaflets informing the people in the targeted area that they are about to be bombed, prior to the bombing. The Iranian regime is not biased? So Christians and Sunni's are not treated as 2nd class citizens? Personally I wouldn't trust any members of the axis of evil with an atomic bomb, but that's me.
March 3rd, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
One difference is the Iranian regime has killed 10 of thousands of political and religious prisoners during it tenure, a far higher tally than that of Israel. As previously mentioned the Israelis are heavy handed, however not nearly as heavy handed as the Iranians. The Israelis are probably the only Mideast country that drops leaflets informing the people in the targeted area that they are about to be bombed, prior to the bombing. The Iranian regime is not biased? So Christians and Sunni's are not treated as 2nd class citizens? Personally I wouldn't trust any members of the axis of evil with an atomic bomb, but that's me.
Israel just killed 1800 people Gaza basically fish in a barrel, you invaded Iraq on falsified intelligence and killed a damn sight more and you said nothing nor hold anyone accountable yet Iran is the bad guy?

I would suggest is just another player in the "evil" game if we use your criteria.

Tell me if I put a family in a water tank and start filling it with water can I mitigate my liability against harm coming to them if I drop them a letter before I turn on the nozzle because that is all Israels letters are, if you have no where to go then getting a letter to tell you that in 30 seconds a missile is going to land on your house doesn't help.

As for nuclear bombs I would personally be happy if no one had them but I accept that as long as someone does have them then everyone is entitled to them.
March 3rd, 2015  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh




1. The Mullahs haven't survived this long by being stupid, they know any unprovoked attack on Israel, Europe or the USA would result in Iran be bombed into the Stone age.
This is not correct : Obama has given up Israel and Europe : he will do nothing if Israel is attacked or if Europe is attacked .Til november of next year,Israel can only depend on its own nucleair force,and,if it is attacked,it will riposte.
 


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