Iran , Why ? - Page 2




 
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Boots
 
March 3rd, 2015  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Israel just killed 1800 people Gaza basically fish in a barrel, you invaded Iraq on falsified intelligence and killed a damn sight more and you said nothing nor hold anyone accountable yet Iran is the bad guy?

I would suggest is just another player in the "evil" game if we use your criteria.


As for nuclear bombs I would personally be happy if no one had them but I accept that as long as someone does have them then everyone is entitled to them.
1) What Israel did in Gaza was justified : Gaza was used as a base for attacks on Israel

2)The US attack on Iraq was also justified,that the intelligence reports were not correct,is irrelevant .
March 3rd, 2015  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetvet
Why is the U.S. trying so hard to negotiate a nuke deal with Iran ? Iran will never honor any deal and the U.S. could make Iran disappear in the blink of an eye .
Not the US are trying to negotiate a nuke deal with Iran, but Obama,which is not the same .
March 3rd, 2015  
Yossarian
 
 
In 1949 The Soviet Union using antiqued equipment, back hand knowledge and scant technical details manufactured on it's own without out side help a nuclear device.

North Korea despite Nuclear sanctions did the same.

If Iran wanted too, it would be nuclear right now, and if Iran was nuclear, outside of reports on testing I have no confidence that our Government would inform us.

Iran does not align with our foreign policy, so Iran must be eliminated. Nuclear smokes and mirrors is a cheap way to buy off the public.

Romans and the Carthaginians in the 21st century.

Book closed.
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Boots
March 3rd, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
In 1949 The Soviet Union using antiqued equipment, back hand knowledge and scant technical details manufactured on it's own without out side help a nuclear device.

North Korea despite Nuclear sanctions did the same.

If Iran wanted too, it would be nuclear right now, and if Iran was nuclear, outside of reports on testing I have no confidence that our Government would inform us.

Iran does not align with our foreign policy, so Iran must be eliminated. Nuclear smokes and mirrors is a cheap way to buy off the public.

Romans and the Carthaginians in the 21st century.

Book closed.
Several Americanís ďthe RosenbergísĒ spied for Stalin and passed along Americanís atomic Knowledge "secrets" to the Soviet Union. This was the key to their Atomic bomb. In fact they were executed for high treason, letís get the facts straight.
Also if North Korea, a 3rd world country can produce an atomic weapon whatís to say with some outside help and enough time Iran canít? And yes they do want them, otherwise they would scrap the program and any sanctions that go with it.
March 3rd, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Israel just killed 1800 people Gaza basically fish in a barrel, you invaded Iraq on falsified intelligence and killed a damn sight more and you said nothing nor hold anyone accountable yet Iran is the bad guy?

I would suggest is just another player in the "evil" game if we use your criteria.
Yes I believe Iran to be the bad guy. Yes they have killed far more people than Israel and are a terror regime. Yes they just sponsored the overthrow of the government in Yemen. I am using the criteria as defined by the United States government.
March 3rd, 2015  
tetvet
 
Israel had their hands full during the latest Gaza war and Israel was forced to make concessions to the Palestinians .
March 4th, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
1) What Israel did in Gaza was justified : Gaza was used as a base for attacks on Israel
That is certainly the Israeli side of the story however "who started what" is somewhat more complex than that after all Gaza fishermen were being attacked before Hamas fired a single rocket and Israeli troops were rounding up anyone in the West Bank that owned some green cloth under the justification of recovering 3 kidnapped squatters that they already knew were dead.

Quote:
2)The US attack on Iraq was also justified,that the intelligence reports were not correct,is irrelevant .
Bollocks.
You are arguing that it is acceptable to make up intelligence to start a war, I am not sure you will get too many backers on this one and even less if they are required to prove their sanity.
March 4th, 2015  
Yossarian
 
 
So when we denied the U.K. support in developing nuclear weapons did that work?

Did we stop the Chinese and later the Pakistani's?


There are far more sworn enemies in Pakistan, a nuclear state mind you than in Iran par Iran's politicians who disagree with us.

I am not stupid, it's hogwash on both sides. American statesmen want us to believe those dirty Iranians want world conquest.

Iranian statesmen want them to believe the American imperialists will rape and kill them all at any given chance.

And the more we both act so asinine the sooner we prove both parties right. Which is what we are doing.


You wanna know the biggest benefit for Iran having a nuclear program? Because of this conversation right now, by far Iran has garnered more sway in regional politics with it's supposed nuclear program and accomplished more just by having something to hold over the west's heads.

Iranian leaders know this, and know American foreign policy maker's think their own citizens so damn naive that every time some trade deal on the back page of the New York Times gets heated between Iran and China, they pull the old: It's time for nuclear talks America- Card.

And you know what, by this point Iran's nuclear program has already paid for itself as one of the most useful tools of mass distraction in their court right now.

They don't want to contest us in open combat, because they know they will lose the fight, more importantly lose power.

Don't get me wrong I am 100% confident if we ever invaded Iran we would only manage to fail at nation building and screw the country all up into some terrorist backwater haven regardless.

But that's what you do when can't win by force on Iran's part.

As for the Israeli question, whens the last time an hurricane or power outage during winter here stateside ever gotten a single care package from Israel?

So why should my loved ones and neighbors die for them ?
March 4th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
So when we denied the U.K. support in developing nuclear weapons did that work?

Did we stop the Chinese and later the Pakistani's?


There are far more sworn enemies in Pakistan, a nuclear state mind you than in Iran par Iran's politicians who disagree with us.

I am not stupid, it's hogwash on both sides. American statesmen want us to believe those dirty Iranians want world conquest.

Iranian statesmen want them to believe the American imperialists will rape and kill them all at any given chance.

And the more we both act so asinine the sooner we prove both parties right. Which is what we are doing.


You wanna know the biggest benefit for Iran having a nuclear program? Because of this conversation right now, by far Iran has garnered more sway in regional politics with it's supposed nuclear program and accomplished more just by having something to hold over the west's heads.

Iranian leaders know this, and know American foreign policy maker's think their own citizens so damn naive that every time some trade deal on the back page of the New York Times gets heated between Iran and China, they pull the old: It's time for nuclear talks America- Card.

And you know what, by this point Iran's nuclear program has already paid for itself as one of the most useful tools of mass distraction in their court right now.

They don't want to contest us in open combat, because they know they will lose the fight, more importantly lose power.

Don't get me wrong I am 100% confident if we ever invaded Iran we would only manage to fail at nation building and screw the country all up into some terrorist backwater haven regardless.

But that's what you do when can't win by force on Iran's part.

As for the Israeli question, whens the last time an hurricane or power outage during winter here stateside ever gotten a single care package from Israel?

So why should my loved ones and neighbors die for them ?
The enemies in Pakistan arenít nor ever have been in charge, thank goodness.
The US has never advocated that Iran desires world conquest. Iran wants to control Ė destabilize portions of the Mideast and Israel via terrorism and subversion. They support Hezbollah and the recent guerrillas that overthrew Yemen (who are in the process of installing an anti American government). Iím not sure what Iranian statesmen are presently presenting to their public. I remember the US as being presented as the great Satan a while back. Unlike the US alternate viewpoints are forbidden in Iran. Something that is allowed in Israel BTW. Iran has nothing to fear in the way of a US ground attack. If we did ever do make a move it would be via Bombers using bunker buster bombs that can drill down Ĺ mile down to take out their nuclear facilities. Personally I donít think these talks have had much effect on Iran except to maintain the sanctions which are inconvenient to Iran and make it look like the president is doing something.
March 4th, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
The enemies in Pakistan arenít nor ever have been in charge, thank goodness.
The US has never advocated that Iran desires world conquest. Iran wants to control Ė destabilize portions of the Mideast and Israel via terrorism and subversion. They support Hezbollah and the recent guerrillas that overthrew Yemen (who are in the process of installing an anti American government). Iím not sure what Iranian statesmen are presently presenting to their public. I remember the US as being presented as the great Satan a while back. Unlike the US alternate viewpoints are forbidden in Iran. Something that is allowed in Israel BTW. Iran has nothing to fear in the way of a US ground attack. If we did ever do make a move it would be via Bombers using bunker buster bombs that can drill down Ĺ mile down to take out their nuclear facilities. Personally I donít think these talks have had much effect on Iran except to maintain the sanctions which are inconvenient to Iran and make it look like the president is doing something.
Wow I didn't think it is possible to throw any more propaganda into a paragraph than that, it is the equivalent of the school yard "you cant make me" argument.

You don't like Iran because they are doing exactly the same thing Israel and the USA are doing in to the middle east only they are becoming more effective at it, so rather than analyse it properly the western response is to throw money and weapons at unpopular governments and sanction Iran who will simply fall back on Russian support and close off communication channels ensuring we have another 70 years of a cold war to bankrupt you even further.

It is pleasing to see that we learned nothing in the last 100 years of gunboat diplomacy.
 


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