Interfax says the ship had 30 T-72

Well, I don't have a whole lot against Somalia but you always make it sound like Somalia is behind the pirates because they are Somali. So, if pirates are holding hostages in the ship, we can hold the entire city hostage. Two can play that game. Get off the ship, or we blow up your city.
Cutting the cable is a great idea. Maybe I ought to send a fax to some authorities here since they suck at these matters and love paying ransom .
 
You don't have to cut the cable. Merely drag a cable runner under it on a long wire and reel it in. the runner will slide down the shank of the anchor and cleanly lift it out of the bottom. you then use the ships cable to tow it away.

Done at night with a long wire, the pirates wouldn't even be aware that they were under tow until it was too late.

This principal is used all the time in the offshore oil industry to move anchors much larger than used by a ship the size of the Faina.
 
senojekips said:
The Russkies may well just steam in, attach a cable runner to the anchor cable of the Faina and drag the ship out to sea where they are in complete control and away from prying eyes. If this happens, I don't think we might see this group of pirates alive again. They will either die on that day, or maybe later somewhere in the gulag, whatever happens, I feel that they will become an object lesson to future pirates.

If the Russkies are successful we will hear about it, if things go pear shaped, the ship will just be sailed or towed back to Russia, and nothing more will ever be heard.
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Maybe they have refined the gas they used in the Moscow Theater incident and could get a greater than 50% survival rate for the hostages.
Either that or they will get low on gas, fire a missile through the side shrug and go home.
 
board it with SF and kill all the pirates. its been done before.
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It most certainly has been done before, and with great success.

Unfortunately many of the bad guys now, are aware of this type of attack and they might well be prepared. They have had a considerable amount of time to get to know the vessel and make their arrangements. Just welding all doors closed but one, will quickly minimise any chance of a surprise attack. All they need to do then is to booby trap the one entrance alleyway so that when the attackers have gained entry, .......

If there is an attack of this type, I feel they will have to be prepared to use brute force.

As cocky as the pirates may seem, I would not allow myself to take them too lightly. Any attack is going to have to be well planned and executed perfectly.

I'll bet that the Russki Navy has a copy of the ships drawings with them.
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Yes Monty they are both possibilities. Which ever way it goes, I can't imagine the pirates getting either the cargo or their ransom.
 
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Actually the issue with the Moscow gas assault was not so much with the gas but what they did afterwards.
Although many chemical agents do not intend to cause vomiting like the one used at the theater (there are others whose sole purpose is to cause vomiting) the body reacting to the poison causes it to happen anyway. Couple that with the loss of consciousness and what happens is people drown in their own vomit. My bet is that if the Russians had done something as simple as roll the rescued hostages onto their sides instead of having them lie on their backs, a significant number could have been saved, perhaps even most of the victims who died though I think the smaller hostages and children may have died from the strength of the chemical agent.
I think that even criminals who know their stuff are a lot better prepared than the folks that pulled off the thing in Munich. There is an almost endless supply of information both online and for purchase. I'm sure they watch SWAT videos and have guys analyze them and play it out in their own version of a kill house using probably BB guns or whatnot. It's not exactly what our pros have, but it's a lot better than nothing.
 
@ Redneck

I have been saying that the Somali people are against the pirates and warlords, but what you may have confused my statement was probably when Someone on the forum advocated for the nuking and wholesale genocide against Somalia because of the actions of the pirates and in that statement I retorted that if they bomb Somalia which has nothing to do with the pirates themselves that all of Somalia will fight back and that Somalis don't take it lightly when foreigners commit aggression against their civilians or sovereignty, and I also stated that if the Russians send troops on the ground that the Somalis will fight back not because they support the pirates because a foreigner has invaded their land.

Everyone wants to get rid of the pirates and the warlords that arm, support and finance their operations right? Well its simple I would say America and Ethiopia need to end their support for the corrupt, puppet and warlord infested government in Mogadishu because the Somali people don't want those warlords as their leaders, simply end your backing of this government and the Somali people and the Islamic Courts will deal with these pirates and warlords; therefore, the international community won't have to worry about these pirates no more. The Islamic Courts have already proven they know how to deal with these pirates, its simple as that.
 
Yeah but the Islamic Courts may pose a clear and present danger to us directly. That's the problem. They may be the generous hosts of Al Qaeda who would want to use Somalia to launch attacks against the West.
We'd rather have to deal with common criminals with no political objective rather than have to deal with one who targets us for political purposes. I'd rather have a pirate problem than a terrorist problem.
 
"Yeah but the Islamic Courts may pose a clear and present danger to us directly. That's the problem. They may be the generous hosts of Al Qaeda who would want to use Somalia to launch attacks against the West.
We'd rather have to deal with common criminals with no political objective rather than have to deal with one who targets us for political purposes. I'd rather have a pirate problem than a terrorist problem."

The Islamic Courts stated that they wanted to establish diplomatic relations with America, they stated out right that they would cooperate with America in any Al Qaeda offensive to make sure that they don't gain a foot hold in the horn of Africa. The Islamic Courts stated that their aims were limited to Somalia and the establishment of a Islamic government in order to override the tribal divisions and get rid of the warlords. They were welcome to the establishment of an American mission and embassy in Somalia to safeguard Western interests. I believe that the Islamic Courts may have been the only chance to stabilize Somalia, I am not a fan of the Islamic Courts because of their strict interpretations of Islam but one must give credit to them because they were the only once to stablize Somalia since the overthrow of General Siad Barre.

Let me ask you honestly, would you rather have a failed state in Somalia? Would you have a state were warlords and pirates run rampant? Would you have a state that threatens international shipping and that harms innocent civilians? Or would You have a state that though its Islamic like Saudi Arabia, but still makes Somalia a viable state that does not threaten its neighbors or the international community? And would you have a state that though its Iranian or Taliban in the style of their rule but still cooperates and creates semblance of stability in a strategic region of the world.
 
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the_13th_redneck said:
If that is true, I'd say we made a grave mistake.
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But first lets look at who was providing assistance to the ICU according to the UN.

1. Djibouti-Military Uniforms and Medicines

2.Eygpt-Training Support

3. Eritrea- Arms, Ammo and possibly troops

4. Hezbollah-Training Advisors, Arms

5. Iran-Arms, ammo, medicines, training

6. Libya-Arms, ammo, training

7. Saudi Arabia- Medicines

8. Syria- Provides out of Country Training for ICU in Syria.

I've bolded the one's that might give cause for pause. Several Terror supporting states and at least one known terror organization.

Might make one think that ICU could be of the same stripe.
 
Somalia

Let me ask you honestly, would you rather have a failed state in Somalia?
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A failed state in who's eyes?
Would you have a state were warlords and pirates run rampant?
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I expect a government to do something to these pirate when they land, I'm tired of hearing Somalia has no navy.
Would you have a state that threatens international shipping and that harms innocent civilians?
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Of course not but Somalia's Islamic Courts+ government is useless.
Or would You have a state that though its Islamic like Saudi Arabia,
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Some of the most anti-American groups live nicely under the Kingdom and if we didn't have to kiss their ass for oil they might very well be an enemy. Besides Pakistan they might be the most two faced government out there.
And would you have a state that though its Iranian or Taliban in the style of their rule but still cooperates and creates semblance of stability in a strategic region of the world.
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That's not possible where ever they are just like the Al Qaeda it only turns into hate and killings in their twisted way. To think that Al Qaeda or some form of them isn't already calling the shots in Islamic Courts run Somalia is a joke. Every single country their in is mess up and how Islamic people in general even follows them blows my mind.
 
03USMC said:
But first lets look at who was providing assistance to the ICU according to the UN.

1. Djibouti-Military Uniforms and Medicines

2.Eygpt-Training Support

3. Eritrea- Arms, Ammo and possibly troops

4. Hezbollah-Training Advisors, Arms

5. Iran-Arms, ammo, medicines, training

6. Libya-Arms, ammo, training

7. Saudi Arabia- Medicines

8. Syria- Provides out of Country Training for ICU in Syria.

I've bolded the one's that might give cause for pause. Several Terror supporting states and at least one known terror organization.

Might make one think that ICU could be of the same stripe.
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Well why am I not surprised?
 
@ 03USMC

"Originally Posted by 03USMC
But first lets look at who was providing assistance to the ICU according to the UN.

1. Djibouti-Military Uniforms and Medicines

2.Eygpt-Training Support

3. Eritrea- Arms, Ammo and possibly troops

4. Hezbollah-Training Advisors, Arms

5. Iran-Arms, ammo, medicines, training

6. Libya-Arms, ammo, training

7. Saudi Arabia- Medicines

8. Syria- Provides out of Country Training for ICU in Syria.

I've bolded the one's that might give cause for pause. Several Terror supporting states and at least one known terror organization.

Might make one think that ICU could be of the same stripe."
Can you substantiate your claim, the Islamic Courts specifically stated that they were welcome to American mission or embassy in Somalia. They stated that they would cooperate in any Al Qaeda offensive. They stated that their aims were limited to Somalia, they stated that they just want to end tribal divisions in Somalia. I want you to substantiate your statement because I can back up anything I state here.... By the way these countries you claim supported the Islamic Courts many of them are current American allies, Djibouti is the current base of the American-French-German forces in the horn of Africa, Saudi Arabia is a leading American supporter in the Middle East, Egypt is the recipient of billions of dollars of American aid, and Libya is supposedly a rehabilitated state.
​

 
UnitedSomalia said:

ight make one think that ICU could be of the same stripe."

Can you substantiate your claim, the Islamic Courts specifically stated that they were welcome to American mission or embassy in Somalia. They stated that they would cooperate in any Al Qaeda offensive. They stated that their aims were limited to Somalia, they stated that they just want to end tribal divisions in Somalia. I want you to substantiate your statement because I can back up anything I state here.... By the way these countries you claim supported the Islamic Courts many of them are current American allies, Djibouti is the current base of the American-French-German forces in the horn of Africa, Saudi Arabia is a leading American supporter in the Middle East, Egypt is the recipient of billions of dollars of American aid, and Libya is supposedly a rehabilitated state. ​
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Substantiate what? That was from the United Nations Investigation. I'm not claiming anything. I'm giving data. That data includes that the United Nations believes that ICU was being supported by some known Terror Supporting States and at least one Terror organization. That is why those were bolded. And why some others were not.I did however consider bolding Saudi.

I suppose now you'll argue that none of the countries in bold could actually be Terror Supporting States.
 
"Substantiate what? That was from the United Nations Investigation. I'm not claiming anything. I'm giving data. That data includes that the United Nations believes that ICU was being supported by some known Terror Supporting States and at least one Terror organization. That is why those were bolded. And why some others were not.I did however consider bolding Saudi.

I suppose now you'll argue that none of the countries in bold could actually be Terror Supporting States."

You still haven't substantiated your claim or statement. I want facts, links, and backup. I know of the Somali situation better than you, and I am very familiar with the whole American-Ethiopian backed regime vs. Islamic Courts situation. If you can't substantiate your claims please don't state them. The UN this, the UN that mumbo jumbo claims you are making won't stand the test of intellect. The statement you have just made I have already disproved and shredded it in my previous arguments, so please if you are going to argue with me with something I know much about than you please have facts and your ammo ready.
 
You know, you really sound a lot like the typical expatriate with fantastic illusions about his own "country of origin." It reminds me of Koreans in America or elsewhere who have never really lived in Korea, never served in Korea's military. Come here and you'll find the truth. It's got some good sides, but other sides plain f*cking suck.
You fit the bill almost exactly. Everything was perfect until the foreigners came along. Bullsh*t.
The statements he has made has not been shredded by your arguments.
In fact, he's referenced his source as the UN Investigation.
Where's your reference? The Islamic Courts? That's hardly convincing. Like if I write a two page report on what a nice guy I am. And as you know the UN and the US don't get along very well, especially since the turn of the millennium.
And what would the Islamic Courts want a US embassy for? Target practice?
 
@ Redneck

"You know, you really sound a lot like the typical expatriate with fantastic illusions about his own "country of origin." It reminds me of Koreans in America or elsewhere who have never really lived in Korea, never served in Korea's military. Come here and you'll find the truth. It's got some good sides, but other sides plain f*cking suck.
You fit the bill almost exactly. Everything was perfect until the foreigners came along. Bullsh*t.
The statements he has made has not been shredded by your arguments.
In fact, he's referenced his source as the UN Investigation.
Where's your reference? The Islamic Courts? That's hardly convincing. Like if I write a two page report on what a nice guy I am. And as you know the UN and the US don't get along very well, especially since the turn of the millennium.
And what would the Islamic Courts want a US embassy for? Target practice?"

I don't have any fantastic illusions of my country, matter of fact I recognize my country for what it is, and that is a complete mess. You underestimate me my friend, I blame the Somalis for starting what is going on in my country in 1991, but in all honesty and fairness the Americans and Ethiopians are to blame for the come back of the warlords and pirates; that is something you can't deny. What I wanted from him was not his statement that this was said by the UN, but a link or concrete backup.

Let me educate you about Something, when the Islamic Courts took over many of the world's Islamic nations threw their lot in with them and supported them, regardless if those nations were American allied or not. After they routed the warlords and the pirates, even some western countries invited and sat down with the Islamic Courts such as Italy.

You know what is wrong with your Redneck and USMC? Is that because the Islamic courts have a name that spells out Islam, and Islamic domestic policies you stereotypically label them in the same category as Al Qaeda, you rather have warlords and pirates that terrorize Somalis and the international community than an Islamic regime in Somalia. Their is no prove of Al Qaeda connections or terrorism, the countries welcomed the Islamic Courts because they were the only ones to stablize Somalia since the overthrow of General Siad Barre. They wanted to cooperate with America and the West against Al Qaeda, they wanted to establish relations with America, and they stated their aims were limited to Somalia. The only reason they were demonized and overthrown was their name was Islamic and they wanted Islamic rule.
 
Listen, I grew up in predominantly Islamic countries so no, it's not some kind of mysterious, foreign stuff.
For a great deal of my life I woke up to the sound of the Imams singing the morning prayer to get people to show up and worship before their day began.
I also realize that they're VERY weird when it comes to Muslims tormenting other Muslims and the strange objection and hatred towards people who are not Muslim trying to save some damned lives. The hypocrisy never fails to amaze me.
I remember in middle school on the school bus there was one kid who bad mouthed Islam and you know who punched his lights out? ME.
And yes your views of Somalia are fantastic and unrealistic.
If they truly wanted to work hand in hand with the West, receiving weapons and training from our enemies was not the smartest thing to do.
 
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