Infantry Anti-tank Weapons - Page 4




View Poll Results :Most effective infantry anti-tank weapon?
Grenade 0 0%
Satchel charge 1 4.76%
Bazooka 0 0%
RPG 3 14.29%
LAW 8 38.10%
Dragon 9 42.86%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

 
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June 29th, 2005  
jackehammond
 
[quote="jackehammond"]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashes
After the success of the Egyptians with their Soviet Sagger 'suitcase missiles' against the Israelis in '73, Chobham armour put a stop to man portable HEAT missiles, at least in a frontal attack, but the Swedes were quick to spot the archilles heel of Chobham tanks and came up with the first top attack missile, BILL.

Other countries have followed the top attack idea.
Now with a myriad of top attack weapons, not many countries would design a shoulder fired missile without top attack.

The Swedes have a very good set up with the 600 mt short range soft launch MTB LAW missile, it has a BILL 2 warhead and can be fired from an enclosed space, the BILL meadium range, and the 7 km. STRIX 120mm smart mortar, not sure if they have the top attack version of TOW, probably would have.

Do you think the lone infantryman with top attack tamdem head HEAT missiles is getting back
on top [excuse the pun] in tank killing?
Dear Member,

The BILL is more of an overflight type weapon instead of the true top attack. The true top attack dives on the target so the HEAT warhead is penetrating at a 0 degree angle straight in. The Bill over flys the tank by about a half meter and explodes its warhead at a 60 degee angle. Since mst tanks angled front hull and turret armor is at a 60 to 45 degree angle this cancels it out giving a 0 degree penetration path. I have some information given me by Bofors years ago and I will try and scan it and post it so members can see the unique way that Bofors was able to take the second generation SACLOS antitank missile and make it work with out having to do the complex R&D required of a 3rd generation like the Javelin. The TOW-2B uses about the same overflight principle of the BILL only it fires its two EFP straight downward instead of a HEAT warhead at a 60 degree angle.

As to the statement about the TOW being an infantry weapon. It is more an infantry support weapon. In a fast advance or retreat it can not keep up with a fast moving infantry unit. Hence the reason the US Army also developed the DRAGON (ie a dog according to most I talked to).

As to the member stating he has seen RPG-7 HEAT warheads bounce off of the M1A1 Abrams. How is this possible. Like the M72 LAW, AT-4, TOW-2, etc HEAT warheads explode as soon as they make contact (ie they have super fast fuzing systems) with the target?

Jack E. Hammond


NOTE> To the member who was with a 106 recoiless rifle unit then a TOW unit the Swedish firm of FFV (it is now Cellius I think) has developed an upgrade for the 106mm that doubles its effective range and a HEAT shell that some how defeats reactive armor without the second smaller HEAT warhead on the nose. It some how or another spikes through the thinner walled reactive armor tiles and then explodes without setting off the reactive armor. I just can't figure out how it works when it impacts a tank not fitted with reactive armor -- ie it seems the HEAT warhead's cone would be totally crushed before the base charge set it off?
June 29th, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackehammond
[
As to the statement about the TOW being an infantry weapon. It is more an infantry support weapon. In a fast advance or retreat it can not keep up with a fast moving infantry unit. Hence the reason the US Army also developed the DRAGON (ie a dog according to most I talked to).

The First Sgt already explained to you that TOW is capable of being man packed and is at times dismounted and moves with the Infantry.

TOW is assigned in the Marine Corps at BN level Infantry BN. It is then attached out at Company level and moves ethier mounted or dismounted as mission dictates.

Your splitting hairs.
June 30th, 2005  
jackehammond
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackehammond
[
As to the statement about the TOW being an infantry weapon. It is more an infantry support weapon. In a fast advance or retreat it can not keep up with a fast moving infantry unit. Hence the reason the US Army also developed the DRAGON (ie a dog according to most I talked to).

The First Sgt already explained to you that TOW is capable of being man packed and is at times dismounted and moves with the Infantry.

TOW is assigned in the Marine Corps at BN level Infantry BN. It is then attached out at Company level and moves ethier mounted or dismounted as mission dictates.

Your splitting hairs.

Dear Member,

Yes, I guess I was splitting hairs and did not make myself clearer. I was just trying to make it clear that the TOW was not in the same catagory as the MILAN, Sagger or DRAGON and should have used a better way of explaining it to the member. Sorry, for any misunderstanding.

Last, I did an article on the TOW back in the early 1980s (ie I even tracked down the first picture of the first TOW kill in Vietnam). I am going to start another topic and post some of the photos I was sent and acquired on the TOW. I have a bunch of them emplaced on the ground mount.

Jack E. Hammond
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June 30th, 2005  
DTop
 
 
Dear Jack(sorry couldn't resist),

I used to teach TOW gunnery in the ARMY. I think we can agree that the Dragon is a medium AT weapon and the TOW is a heavy AT weapon. The Dragon was carried by our rifle companies while the TOW was initially part of Combat Support Companies which, along with a 106 mm recoilless rifle turned TOW platoon, included a heavy (4.2 inch) mortar platoon, the battalion's scout platoon, and at one time the BN's anti-aircraft missiles (Redeye). I was, at different times, the PSG of each of those platoons. This was before the Army reorganized and created the companies I mentioned that consisted of only TOWs. All of these

That pic of the TOW in Vietnam might be the one that was fired by U.S. soldiers in combat near Kontum, when airborne TOW missiles destroyed four captured American M41 tanks, an artillery gun, and a truck. It happened in May, 1972. Check out
http://www.redstone.army.mil/history/firsts/firsts.html

DTop
June 30th, 2005  
Ashes
 
The first time I realised that the TOW could be man packed was after I saw a doco on the Israeli army some years back.

The Israeli troopers had it in sections and even the guy with the tube was making good pace although it looked darned heavy and awkward, glad it was them, not me.


Here is some info on BILL 2.

Pansarvarn RBS 56 BILL
The Bofors BILL 2 multi-mission guided weapon is a further development of the highly successful BILL system. In BILL 2 Bofors has refined the Overfly Top-attack technology (OTA), already proven to be the only effective tank killing method for the future, enhanced the capability with a dual-warhead, and created new modes for different target types such as non-armoured vehicles and soft targets.

The BILL missile works in top attack mode with the strike angle at 30 degrees to the horizontal, ensuring the shortest route of penetration of the armour, and at least 25% to 50% of the warhead energy is delivered to the interior of the tank.


The guidance system is guidance-by-wire. BILL works in a top attack mode whereby the missile travels on a trajectory over the top of the target tank just above the turret roof at a height 75cm above the gunner's line of sight avoiding the heavily protected frontal arc. As the missile travels over the top of the tank, the downward canted warhead ignites, is directed at the vulnerable roof of the tank and the jet of the plasticised metal warhead penetrates the tank. The missile is 90 cm in length with body diameter 15 cm. The missile and launch tube weigh 20 kg.


And to increase combat flexibility the gunner has two more firing modes at his command. The warhead arrangement, with its vertically striking shaped charges, compensated for dynamic effects, have demonstrated BILL 2ís very high Single Shot Kill Probability (SSKP). Any MBT, old or new, whether equipped with the most advanced add-on/integrated protection or not, will be effectively and immediately put out-of-action. The effective combat range for both static and moving targets is 150-2,200 meters and the flight time at maximum range is 13 seconds. BILL 2 has a SACLOS guidance system and the missile is wire-guided.

The guidance system contains a flight simulator with a computerised model in the sight, simulating the whole target engagement. A parallel engagement simulation in real time is created via the continuous comparisons made between simulation and reality, using processed in-put signals from the missile tracker and the angle indicator. The laser beacon in the aft of the missile transmits individually coded laser signals back to the sight (missile tracker), making the system immune to jamming. The missile system incorporates both an interactive, dual-purpose sensor system and an impact fuze.